4 ms·

I'm struggling to understand how this is AirBnB's fault? Do we expect them to detect when people are lying?

by thirsteh 13y ago

sliverstorm 13y ago
Whose responsibility is it, then?
- dangrossman 13y ago
  The person who committed fraud to get the rental, then caused $87K in damages while in possession of the rental.
  - fennecfoxen 13y ago
    Fault is a complex matter, especially when you're talking legal fault, moderated by contracts.
    - thirsteh 13y ago
      (I don't know anything about AirBnB's terms of use, etc., but I would assume that they rid themselves of as much liability as possible.) It just seems like blaming AirBnB here is akin to blaming Google Search because you found the renter there, or Craigslist, or...
      - smsm42 13y ago
        That would be true if the only service AirBnB were marketing was search and publishing - like Craigslist. But they also advertise selection and insurance.
RaphiePS 13y ago
He mentioned that the positive reviews could be fake. So, it seems that Airbnb should be more rigorously vetting guests.
- philwelch 13y ago
  Or, if you want to commandeer someone's apartment for a XXX sex fest, you start off by AirBnb'ing legitimately a few times to get a positive rating.
  - hendzen 13y ago
    Someone at AirBnB needs to read up on Sybil attacks :)
  - Crito 13y ago
    If you have an entire club of XXX sex fest freaks, you could likely easily get fake reviews by having your other club members sign up for AirBNB, all "stay" at each others places, and all leave positive reviews for each other.
    - dangrossman 13y ago
      The tough part is convincing one of them to get verified before destroying someone's apartment. It's pretty hard to walk away from the damages after giving up your payment info, a copy of your drivers license, and a link to an established (not newly created) social media profile on Facebook or LinkedIn, which are part of AirBNB's verification.
      - gknoy 13y ago
        I'm surprised the blogger in question isn't asking for AirBNB's help finding David and suing him for damages directly. Wouldn't such actions be fraud?
kranner 13y ago
That's what the 'verified' status would seem to imply.
- thirsteh 13y ago
  And if I use AirBnB legitimately for a while, then decide to do this, then what? It's AirBnB's fault for matchmaking? That seems similar to blaming Google Search, not the site itself, for returning a site that has ranked well for a long time, but has just now started serving malware.
  - kranner 13y ago
    Your point is fair, but IMO it would not be incorrect to blame both the site as well as Google Search, obviously for different reasons. 'Verified' should eventually mean verified, with no qualifiers. If it can't be guaranteed then it's better to say so. edit: I see from jamesroseman's comment below that 'verified' only means that their ID is verified, not the reason they require the accommodation. (https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450 https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450) If that's clear from the UI (and not just buried in a FAQ), it invalidates my point.
  - rdl 13y ago
    Or I hack a legitimate user's AirBnB account. Pretty much any one.
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  No. The verified status means that the person provided an "offline ID, online ID, profile photo, email address, and phone number. " It doesn't verify against people lying about their intentions.
jamesroseman 13y ago
I think I understand your point of view, it was my initial point of view as well. I thought, "well, you used a website that offers to connect you with people who want to use your home and you blame the website for the person who ruined your home instead of that actual person?". The author here will probably pursue legal recourse against that individual as well. It's a two-part problem: 1.) The leaser may have violated the lease as laid out by the author by effectively ruining the home. 2.) AirBNB reported a leaser as 'verified', which is important because of the implication that the leaser won't do certain things like ruin your home during their stay. Unfortunately per 2, this isn't actually what AirBNB claims to mean by "verified" [0]. It's unfortunate because of what happened, but you are indeed correct -- technically speaking AirBNB is not responsible here. It sucks, and it certainly means I won't be using AirBNB, but they've done their job of protecting themselves. [0] https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450 https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450

I'm struggling to understand how this is AirBnB's fault? Do we expect them to detect when people are lying?

sliverstorm 13y ago

Whose responsibility is it, then?

dangrossman 13y ago
The person who committed fraud to get the rental, then caused $87K in damages while in possession of the rental.
- fennecfoxen 13y ago
  Fault is a complex matter, especially when you're talking legal fault, moderated by contracts.
  - thirsteh 13y ago
    (I don't know anything about AirBnB's terms of use, etc., but I would assume that they rid themselves of as much liability as possible.) It just seems like blaming AirBnB here is akin to blaming Google Search because you found the renter there, or Craigslist, or...
    - smsm42 13y ago
      That would be true if the only service AirBnB were marketing was search and publishing - like Craigslist. But they also advertise selection and insurance.

RaphiePS 13y ago

He mentioned that the positive reviews could be fake. So, it seems that Airbnb should be more rigorously vetting guests.

philwelch 13y ago
Or, if you want to commandeer someone's apartment for a XXX sex fest, you start off by AirBnb'ing legitimately a few times to get a positive rating.
- hendzen 13y ago
  Someone at AirBnB needs to read up on Sybil attacks :)
- Crito 13y ago
  If you have an entire club of XXX sex fest freaks, you could likely easily get fake reviews by having your other club members sign up for AirBNB, all "stay" at each others places, and all leave positive reviews for each other.
  - dangrossman 13y ago
    The tough part is convincing one of them to get verified before destroying someone's apartment. It's pretty hard to walk away from the damages after giving up your payment info, a copy of your drivers license, and a link to an established (not newly created) social media profile on Facebook or LinkedIn, which are part of AirBNB's verification.
    - gknoy 13y ago
      I'm surprised the blogger in question isn't asking for AirBNB's help finding David and suing him for damages directly. Wouldn't such actions be fraud?

kranner 13y ago

That's what the 'verified' status would seem to imply.

thirsteh 13y ago
And if I use AirBnB legitimately for a while, then decide to do this, then what? It's AirBnB's fault for matchmaking? That seems similar to blaming Google Search, not the site itself, for returning a site that has ranked well for a long time, but has just now started serving malware.
- kranner 13y ago
  Your point is fair, but IMO it would not be incorrect to blame both the site as well as Google Search, obviously for different reasons. 'Verified' should eventually mean verified, with no qualifiers. If it can't be guaranteed then it's better to say so. edit: I see from jamesroseman's comment below that 'verified' only means that their ID is verified, not the reason they require the accommodation. (https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450 https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450) If that's clear from the UI (and not just buried in a FAQ), it invalidates my point.
- rdl 13y ago
  Or I hack a legitimate user's AirBnB account. Pretty much any one.
jasonlotito 13y ago
No. The verified status means that the person provided an "offline ID, online ID, profile photo, email address, and phone number. " It doesn't verify against people lying about their intentions.

jamesroseman 13y ago

I think I understand your point of view, it was my initial point of view as well. I thought, "well, you used a website that offers to connect you with people who want to use your home and you blame the website for the person who ruined your home instead of that actual person?". The author here will probably pursue legal recourse against that individual as well. It's a two-part problem: 1.) The leaser may have violated the lease as laid out by the author by effectively ruining the home. 2.) AirBNB reported a leaser as 'verified', which is important because of the implication that the leaser won't do certain things like ruin your home during their stay. Unfortunately per 2, this isn't actually what AirBNB claims to mean by "verified" [0]. It's unfortunate because of what happened, but you are indeed correct -- technically speaking AirBNB is not responsible here. It sucks, and it certainly means I won't be using AirBNB, but they've done their job of protecting themselves. [0] https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450 https://www.airbnb.com/help/question/450