4 ms·

The kind of sexism you describe in your first paragraph is incredibly easy to see. It's the kind of sexism you'd see in a movie, and it does happen. But I think

The kind of sexism you describe in your first paragraph is incredibly easy to see. It's the kind of sexism you'd see in a movie, and it does happen. But I think we have come far enough to know that if someone said "you should be making babies" seriously to someone else, it wouldn't be tolerated. In short, I think your experience is definitely "limited and man-centric". Talk to your female friends more and see if they agree with your experience. I'm not a woman, but intuitively I would bet that the awkward gray zone stuff is a much larger part of what makes women uncomfortable in an office setting. In fact, I have seen the gray zone affect my girlfriends and close friends who are women. It's a much bigger problem than the few true misogynists out there.

munin 13y ago
I'm not sure I agree totally with you. I've talked about this a lot with my women friends and in 2014 consistent complaints I hear are people using diminutive or sexist language towards women in professional contexts. It's just that blatant and it's totally tolerated, across government, academia and industry. It takes a lot of effort to stick your head up and say "I'm sorry, I don't want that to happen" and some friends of mine have just stopped trying and go with it because fighting it and working professionally is just too hard. I'd be interested in seeing if the gray zone exists in an office that's absent toxic attitudes towards women but in ten years of working I haven't seen such an office. The women are uncomfortable because John leers at them when they walk past his office, or everyone keeps asking Mary to take notes at the meeting and fetch coffee, or Joe keeps talking about porn on his lunch break. You should read Nancy Hauge's "Consulting Adult" series about life working at Sun - it was depressing how little had changed in a corporate setting with regards to the treatment of women! In my experience at least...
- zobzu 13y ago
  im a guy and apparently im cute enough so that i sometimes get "sexy jokes" from women at my office. Everyone sees it as good fun. Even me. It's not that bad, and if anything I suppose I'm a little flattered - even if i've ZERO interest in the person and I'm in a work environment. I'm not making any joke back to them tho. It's risky, and I don't want problems with anyone, anyway, I frankly think it's not worth my time. I however see posts, tweets, blogs etc from coworkers who blame other men. Example: "we're going bro-coding tonight, anyone wanna join?" To them that means "women not allowed". It says brothers. Some even threaten others of legal action and talk about it in public too, trying to shame people. The disconnect is HUGE. To be blunt, I think they're fucking crazy.
aviraldg 13y ago
Your last sentence implying that you believe this is a form of misogyny?

munin 13y ago

I'm not sure I agree totally with you. I've talked about this a lot with my women friends and in 2014 consistent complaints I hear are people using diminutive or sexist language towards women in professional contexts. It's just that blatant and it's totally tolerated, across government, academia and industry. It takes a lot of effort to stick your head up and say "I'm sorry, I don't want that to happen" and some friends of mine have just stopped trying and go with it because fighting it and working professionally is just too hard. I'd be interested in seeing if the gray zone exists in an office that's absent toxic attitudes towards women but in ten years of working I haven't seen such an office. The women are uncomfortable because John leers at them when they walk past his office, or everyone keeps asking Mary to take notes at the meeting and fetch coffee, or Joe keeps talking about porn on his lunch break. You should read Nancy Hauge's "Consulting Adult" series about life working at Sun - it was depressing how little had changed in a corporate setting with regards to the treatment of women! In my experience at least...

zobzu 13y ago
im a guy and apparently im cute enough so that i sometimes get "sexy jokes" from women at my office. Everyone sees it as good fun. Even me. It's not that bad, and if anything I suppose I'm a little flattered - even if i've ZERO interest in the person and I'm in a work environment. I'm not making any joke back to them tho. It's risky, and I don't want problems with anyone, anyway, I frankly think it's not worth my time. I however see posts, tweets, blogs etc from coworkers who blame other men. Example: "we're going bro-coding tonight, anyone wanna join?" To them that means "women not allowed". It says brothers. Some even threaten others of legal action and talk about it in public too, trying to shame people. The disconnect is HUGE. To be blunt, I think they're fucking crazy.

aviraldg 13y ago

Your last sentence implying that you believe this is a form of misogyny?