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Huh? If more people are brave enough to speak out about harassment I wouldn’t argue that it’s inconceivable for harassers to be more careful. I’m speaking in t

by arrrg 13y ago

Huh? If more people are brave enough to speak out about harassment I wouldn’t argue that it’s inconceivable for harassers to be more careful. I’m speaking in the abstract here. If harassers know that ex-employees might be willing to speak out against them they might be less likely to do it in the future. It’s pretty simple. That’s pretty much how societal change works. That’s also why one person doing it is not enough.

bsder 13y ago
> If more people are brave enough to speak out about harassment I wouldn’t argue that it’s inconceivable for harassers to be more careful. Sure, but there are shades here. Overtly sexual stuff needs to be wiped out. But what about promotions and support? Jeri Ellsworth had a problem at Valve, but it didn't seem to be related to her gender. It was that she was outside the entrenched power structure which is a problem for both men and women at Valve. However, there is collateral damage. If this kind of problem can sink your company and you have to be too careful, you can avoid the problem by not hiring women. Oops ... unintended consequence.
bsder 13y ago
> If more people are brave enough to speak out about harassment I wouldn’t argue that it’s inconceivable for harassers to be more careful. Why can't you see that this doesn't fix the problem? Laws and social approbation can stop someone from grabbing your ass. However, they can't make someone respect you as a colleague.
- arrrg 13y ago
  At some point those people will go into retirement and die. I never said this is a fast process, ok? Stuff like that takes generations.
  - jayvanguard 13y ago
    For sure. In the case of the African-American civil rights movement it took many generations. But whenever someone minimizes an individual effort, finds excuses why they shouldn't have fought back, questions whether they really deserved it or not, or nit-picks their stories they are setting things back and slowing things down. Often the most rational people are the worst. They love to ignore context, pose what-ifs, and explore every edge case. But really they are just biased.

by arrrg 13y ago

bsder 13y ago

> If more people are brave enough to speak out about harassment I wouldn’t argue that it’s inconceivable for harassers to be more careful. Sure, but there are shades here. Overtly sexual stuff needs to be wiped out. But what about promotions and support? Jeri Ellsworth had a problem at Valve, but it didn't seem to be related to her gender. It was that she was outside the entrenched power structure which is a problem for both men and women at Valve. However, there is collateral damage. If this kind of problem can sink your company and you have to be too careful, you can avoid the problem by not hiring women. Oops ... unintended consequence.

bsder 13y ago

> If more people are brave enough to speak out about harassment I wouldn’t argue that it’s inconceivable for harassers to be more careful. Why can't you see that this doesn't fix the problem? Laws and social approbation can stop someone from grabbing your ass. However, they can't make someone respect you as a colleague.

arrrg 13y ago
At some point those people will go into retirement and die. I never said this is a fast process, ok? Stuff like that takes generations.
- jayvanguard 13y ago
  For sure. In the case of the African-American civil rights movement it took many generations. But whenever someone minimizes an individual effort, finds excuses why they shouldn't have fought back, questions whether they really deserved it or not, or nit-picks their stories they are setting things back and slowing things down. Often the most rational people are the worst. They love to ignore context, pose what-ifs, and explore every edge case. But really they are just biased.