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Surely that applies to everything about prime - shipping is 'free' after you've paid the fee. So that means it's all 'free' despite costing $100 just as a Tesl

by gress 13y ago

Surely that applies to everything about prime - shipping is 'free' after you've paid the fee. So that means it's all 'free' despite costing $100 just as a Tesla Model S is free after you've paid the $70,000 fee, and a Mac Pro is also free after you've paid the $2,999. Perfectly reasonable.

djur 13y ago
Those are inapt comparisons. How about this: I go to Costco and see a 24-pack of toilet paper. The price displayed is $7.99. I go to the checkout and pay $7.99 and take the toilet paper home. I wouldn't have been able to make the purchase without having previously paid for a Costco membership, so the "true" cost of the toilet paper is more than $7.99. That said, would anyone reasonably contend with the statement "I got this toilet paper for $7.99"? Similarly, those videos are free _for members_, in the sense that they can be used at no further cost.
- gress 13y ago
  Sure - but you haven't addressed the point that everything about amazon prime works this way but calling all the benefits 'free' is surely misleading. Equally if I set up a Mac Pro club where I charge $3500 annual membership, and you get a free Mac Pro, nobody would be fooled into calling that Mac Pro 'free'.
  - djur 13y ago
    That's precisely the point I addressed. The "Mac Pro club" example isn't relevant here because it's a membership that results in the delivery of a single product at a single time. There's a reason nobody structures membership deals like that. Amazon Prime is a flat membership fee, after which you receive a number of unmetered benefits. Some of those benefits include products that would normally cost money being available for no additional cost. The use of the word "free" to describe offers like that is unremarkable.
    - gress 13y ago
      It may be unremarkable, but that doesn't make it honest. Nothing you get from prime is actually 'free'. Unmetered is honest, 'included' would be honest. 'Free' is not. Another example would be broadband with no cap. We call that 'unmetered' not 'free', for a reason.
  - ZoF 13y ago
    Yeah he did address the point. The Costco example is apt. Are people not understanding the concept of membership? There are _countless_ examples of membership, both online and off, in which perks of said membership are touted as "free". Golf clubs offer free food/drinks/carts. Costco as mentioned offers free unlimited-discounts/samples/eye-testing. etc... "Free" has at this point become an idiomatic expression, which, when used in the context of a membership perk, effectively means "You've paid for unlimited use of this perk and it's no additional charge over the cost of your membership" In all of my time using Amazon I've never felt the intention to mislead me into thinking I would have these videos free if I hadn't paid for Prime... In all of their advertisements/video-descriptions it is explicitly mentioned somewhere on the page that this video is "prime"... The 'free video' section is even labelled "Prime Instant Video". Whether you're getting free drinks at the Golf Club or watching free videos in Amazon Prime, it would take a mental invalid to not realize the inherent cost of that 'free' item, and the fact that you already paid for access to it.
    - gress 13y ago
      > Whether you're getting free drinks at the Golf Club or watching free videos in Amazon Prime, it would take a mental invalid to not realize the inherent cost of that 'free' item, and the fact that you already paid for access to it. I suggest you do some actual research into behavioral economics.
  - grandsham 13y ago
    There are other streaming videos on amazon that you still need to pay for, even if you aren't a Prime member. The "free" amazon prime videos are the ones that are $0 extra if you are Prime, instead of $1.99 or whatever.
marshray 13y ago
No, the Tesla only gets you one thing, one time: a car. For those of us (I'm guessing the majority) who already buy Amazon Prime simply for the benefit of unlimited 2-day shipping, any additional features come at no cost. I agree it's not the same as a pure definition of 'free', but for many of us it's effectively the same.
- gress 13y ago
  What about the people who buy it for the streaming video? Does that make shipping 'free'?
  - marshray 13y ago
    Perhaps a better word here is 'bonus'
mcherm 13y ago
Perhaps the statement was intended this way: "Shipping is 'free' [for Amazon Prime members]." That is a factual statement, even under a very strict definition of the word "free". And I think it corresponds to the original poster's intent. Obviously, it costs money to become an Amazon Prime member, but for such members the shipping is, indeed, free.

by gress 13y ago

djur 13y ago

Those are inapt comparisons. How about this: I go to Costco and see a 24-pack of toilet paper. The price displayed is $7.99. I go to the checkout and pay $7.99 and take the toilet paper home. I wouldn't have been able to make the purchase without having previously paid for a Costco membership, so the "true" cost of the toilet paper is more than $7.99. That said, would anyone reasonably contend with the statement "I got this toilet paper for $7.99"? Similarly, those videos are free _for members_, in the sense that they can be used at no further cost.

gress 13y ago
Sure - but you haven't addressed the point that everything about amazon prime works this way but calling all the benefits 'free' is surely misleading. Equally if I set up a Mac Pro club where I charge $3500 annual membership, and you get a free Mac Pro, nobody would be fooled into calling that Mac Pro 'free'.
- djur 13y ago
  That's precisely the point I addressed. The "Mac Pro club" example isn't relevant here because it's a membership that results in the delivery of a single product at a single time. There's a reason nobody structures membership deals like that. Amazon Prime is a flat membership fee, after which you receive a number of unmetered benefits. Some of those benefits include products that would normally cost money being available for no additional cost. The use of the word "free" to describe offers like that is unremarkable.
  - gress 13y ago
    It may be unremarkable, but that doesn't make it honest. Nothing you get from prime is actually 'free'. Unmetered is honest, 'included' would be honest. 'Free' is not. Another example would be broadband with no cap. We call that 'unmetered' not 'free', for a reason.
- ZoF 13y ago
  Yeah he did address the point. The Costco example is apt. Are people not understanding the concept of membership? There are _countless_ examples of membership, both online and off, in which perks of said membership are touted as "free". Golf clubs offer free food/drinks/carts. Costco as mentioned offers free unlimited-discounts/samples/eye-testing. etc... "Free" has at this point become an idiomatic expression, which, when used in the context of a membership perk, effectively means "You've paid for unlimited use of this perk and it's no additional charge over the cost of your membership" In all of my time using Amazon I've never felt the intention to mislead me into thinking I would have these videos free if I hadn't paid for Prime... In all of their advertisements/video-descriptions it is explicitly mentioned somewhere on the page that this video is "prime"... The 'free video' section is even labelled "Prime Instant Video". Whether you're getting free drinks at the Golf Club or watching free videos in Amazon Prime, it would take a mental invalid to not realize the inherent cost of that 'free' item, and the fact that you already paid for access to it.
  - gress 13y ago
    > Whether you're getting free drinks at the Golf Club or watching free videos in Amazon Prime, it would take a mental invalid to not realize the inherent cost of that 'free' item, and the fact that you already paid for access to it. I suggest you do some actual research into behavioral economics.
- grandsham 13y ago
  There are other streaming videos on amazon that you still need to pay for, even if you aren't a Prime member. The "free" amazon prime videos are the ones that are $0 extra if you are Prime, instead of $1.99 or whatever.

marshray 13y ago

No, the Tesla only gets you one thing, one time: a car. For those of us (I'm guessing the majority) who already buy Amazon Prime simply for the benefit of unlimited 2-day shipping, any additional features come at no cost. I agree it's not the same as a pure definition of 'free', but for many of us it's effectively the same.

gress 13y ago
What about the people who buy it for the streaming video? Does that make shipping 'free'?
- marshray 13y ago
  Perhaps a better word here is 'bonus'

mcherm 13y ago

Perhaps the statement was intended this way: "Shipping is 'free' [for Amazon Prime members]." That is a factual statement, even under a very strict definition of the word "free". And I think it corresponds to the original poster's intent. Obviously, it costs money to become an Amazon Prime member, but for such members the shipping is, indeed, free.