5 ms·

For so long I tried to convince others (even females) that sexism and casual sexism wasn't a thing in software development. I tried to project an image of guys

by strict9 13y ago

For so long I tried to convince others (even females) that sexism and casual sexism wasn't a thing in software development. I tried to project an image of guys who were introverted and shy around women, and that so called "brogrammers" were in the extreme minority. But those same women I tried to convince gave me concrete examples, sometimes even in the companies I worked for. Things I might have ignored or looked past were seen in a different light from their perspective. When you are in the minority somewhere, even small things are personal and cut deeper. A fact that many in the tech industry seemed to have forgotten from high school, if they were there in the time before being a computer geek was considered cool. As I said in the related thread on this event, let's stop with the victim blaming and personal insults when someone makes claims of being harassed. We pride ourselves on being intelligent and tolerant. Let's act like it and put down those who don't live by it.

johnbm 13y ago
"Victim blaming" implies you know for sure who the victim is. Given that this is nothing but one big he-said-she-said, I will instead reserve judgement. We have someone who's been accused of being unable to take criticism and being vindictive. She responds by throwing a public tantrum and blaming all of Github for it. If the shoe fits... Why is she so convinced that post is about her anyway? Unless there was some truth to it. The tech feminists never seem interested in taking the high road, and instead optimize for maximum drama. Don't complain about being a public figure when you broadcast your life on Twitter.
- marcusestes 13y ago
  It doesn't sound like you've reserved judgement at all.
  - johnbm 13y ago
    I can criticize the way she's handling this without having to believe she's guilty.
    - testacular 13y ago
      You're so blinded by bigotry that you don't realize that you insulted, quite literally, all tech feminists. I know I'll get banned for pointing this out on this forum, but you're a bigot. And like most such bigots, your head is so far up your own ass, you can't even see what you're doing. Thanks pg. We're all worse because johnbm and others like him have a platform for their proud sexism here at HN.
  - nailer 13y ago
    If there was something specific and genuine that happened, and the person in question wished to do something about it other than attract a lot of attention, I imagine they'd post a lot more detail other than "I was harassed, HR made up a story, GitHub has a sexist culture". GitHub, like any company, wouldn't say anything about an individual HR case. We should be reserving our judgement of what happened - personally, I'll wait a month or two and ask GitHubbers what they actually think when I see them - but this isn't a professional way to handle something. The person is obviously angry, so: - get off Twitter - chill out for a week - think about getting a lawyer if you believe you were harassed.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    He didn't judge her or Github with respect to the "incidents" in question because we have no facts on those incidents. What we do have facts on is how such the here-say is being publicized by one individual. In that respect, it's fair to judge those specific actions while reserving judgement of the actions involving the actual incident being discussed until a later date when more facts have been made public.
- testacular 13y ago
  "I will instead reserve judgment" "tech feminists never seem interested in taking the high road, and instead optimize for maximum drama" This is what HN has become. Thanks pg. This is why people say you're a sexist. You've created a safe space for bigots to spew this bullshit.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Given that this is nothing but one big he-said-she-said At least the linked article seems to just be a "she said", so, unless there's more info somewhere, I don't think this has even reached the he-said/she-said stage.
facepalm 13y ago
I don't think accusations of harassment should automatically be believed. It's telling that the article includes the episode from the Ruby conference, which to me is a very good example of mistaken accusations to the tech industry (it had nothing to do with Ruby or Tech conferences whatsoever, there was just an incidental connection).

by strict9 13y ago

johnbm 13y ago

"Victim blaming" implies you know for sure who the victim is. Given that this is nothing but one big he-said-she-said, I will instead reserve judgement. We have someone who's been accused of being unable to take criticism and being vindictive. She responds by throwing a public tantrum and blaming all of Github for it. If the shoe fits... Why is she so convinced that post is about her anyway? Unless there was some truth to it. The tech feminists never seem interested in taking the high road, and instead optimize for maximum drama. Don't complain about being a public figure when you broadcast your life on Twitter.

marcusestes 13y ago
It doesn't sound like you've reserved judgement at all.
- johnbm 13y ago
  I can criticize the way she's handling this without having to believe she's guilty.
  - testacular 13y ago
    You're so blinded by bigotry that you don't realize that you insulted, quite literally, all tech feminists. I know I'll get banned for pointing this out on this forum, but you're a bigot. And like most such bigots, your head is so far up your own ass, you can't even see what you're doing. Thanks pg. We're all worse because johnbm and others like him have a platform for their proud sexism here at HN.
- nailer 13y ago
  If there was something specific and genuine that happened, and the person in question wished to do something about it other than attract a lot of attention, I imagine they'd post a lot more detail other than "I was harassed, HR made up a story, GitHub has a sexist culture". GitHub, like any company, wouldn't say anything about an individual HR case. We should be reserving our judgement of what happened - personally, I'll wait a month or two and ask GitHubbers what they actually think when I see them - but this isn't a professional way to handle something. The person is obviously angry, so: - get off Twitter - chill out for a week - think about getting a lawyer if you believe you were harassed.
- malandrew 13y ago
  He didn't judge her or Github with respect to the "incidents" in question because we have no facts on those incidents. What we do have facts on is how such the here-say is being publicized by one individual. In that respect, it's fair to judge those specific actions while reserving judgement of the actions involving the actual incident being discussed until a later date when more facts have been made public.
testacular 13y ago
"I will instead reserve judgment" "tech feminists never seem interested in taking the high road, and instead optimize for maximum drama" This is what HN has become. Thanks pg. This is why people say you're a sexist. You've created a safe space for bigots to spew this bullshit.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> Given that this is nothing but one big he-said-she-said At least the linked article seems to just be a "she said", so, unless there's more info somewhere, I don't think this has even reached the he-said/she-said stage.

facepalm 13y ago

I don't think accusations of harassment should automatically be believed. It's telling that the article includes the episode from the Ruby conference, which to me is a very good example of mistaken accusations to the tech industry (it had nothing to do with Ruby or Tech conferences whatsoever, there was just an incidental connection).