3 ms·

The people who use these controllers are going to be at a massive disadvantage compared to those playing with keyboard and mouse. Valve needs to conduct more wi

by hajile 13y ago

The people who use these controllers are going to be at a massive disadvantage compared to those playing with keyboard and mouse. Valve needs to conduct more widespread testing with a trackball variety. That would allow controller users to have a more even match.

Pxtl 13y ago
The intent is that the touchpad function as a trackball, and until I hear otherwise I'm going to consider the possibility that the touchpad can function as a trackball pretty well - the motion is similar, all your missing is the haptics of the thing physically moving under your thumb. Either way, there are no pro-gamers in the twitch-oriented genres that use trackballs. So no matter what, the gamepad/trackball is going to be a handicap. I think we're all just hoping for "good enough", not "as good as a mouse". I'd settle for "good enough". The gap between a mouse and a thumbstick is such a massive ocean that a substantial improvement, even if it doesn't reach "as good as mouse" would be worth buying.
- hajile 13y ago
  Trackpads can't mimic the precision (a dot the size of a pinhead vs a fat thumb). They can't get rid of their terrible z-axis problem (far worse than mice -- and not present in trackballs). They also can't handle inertia well due to lack of feedback (When you use a trackball, you become very adept at flinging the ball and stopping it at the exact position you want). As to pro-gamers, some of us remember when over half of the pro gamers used nothing but trackballs (in preference to optical or mechanical mice). The short story here is that trackballs didn't keep up with the newer laser technology needed for better resolution, so the pros moved on to mice. There are now some trackballs that use laser technology, but everyone (for better or worse) has moved on.
pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
They have already tested trackballs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfN5WK7OzU8#t=206 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfN5WK7OzU8#t=206
- hajile 13y ago
  Trackpads have a major issue. They are not accurate. If you heighten the sensitivity, they have severe z-axis problems (worse than any mouse) and decreasing the sensitivity makes motions slower and less responsive. Because of the size of the target (the human finger) there is no definitive "this is where I am". Several other of their ideas are in error. Larger trackballs are not needed (logitech and kesington both make popular trackballs with small radii that perform well. The weight of the ball is also a red herring as it is possible to make lighter balls if needed. The "issue" of cleaning is minimal and a non-issue overall (ask any trackball user). The idea that circuit space is constrained is also a non-issue. Modern trackballs use a laser to read the ball (a feature of trackballs is no z-axis movement) The circuitry to deal with this is small as is the circuitry for much of the rest of the device. The real argument is that the material cost is higher, so they'd rather use inferior design and bump up profit margins. Most gamers will pay over $50 for a mouse (with some of us giving over $100 for our mice or trackballs). I'd rather have a quality device and pay a little more.
  - pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
    Have you used a Steam Controller?
  - Tyr42 13y ago
    What do you mean by z-axis movement?
cfreeman 13y ago
This isn't a product for high-level competitive gaming. This is a product that allows the average gamer to play the vast catalog of steam games from the couch.

by hajile 13y ago

Pxtl 13y ago

The intent is that the touchpad function as a trackball, and until I hear otherwise I'm going to consider the possibility that the touchpad can function as a trackball pretty well - the motion is similar, all your missing is the haptics of the thing physically moving under your thumb. Either way, there are no pro-gamers in the twitch-oriented genres that use trackballs. So no matter what, the gamepad/trackball is going to be a handicap. I think we're all just hoping for "good enough", not "as good as a mouse". I'd settle for "good enough". The gap between a mouse and a thumbstick is such a massive ocean that a substantial improvement, even if it doesn't reach "as good as mouse" would be worth buying.

hajile 13y ago
Trackpads can't mimic the precision (a dot the size of a pinhead vs a fat thumb). They can't get rid of their terrible z-axis problem (far worse than mice -- and not present in trackballs). They also can't handle inertia well due to lack of feedback (When you use a trackball, you become very adept at flinging the ball and stopping it at the exact position you want). As to pro-gamers, some of us remember when over half of the pro gamers used nothing but trackballs (in preference to optical or mechanical mice). The short story here is that trackballs didn't keep up with the newer laser technology needed for better resolution, so the pros moved on to mice. There are now some trackballs that use laser technology, but everyone (for better or worse) has moved on.

pikachu_is_cool 13y ago

They have already tested trackballs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfN5WK7OzU8#t=206 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfN5WK7OzU8#t=206

hajile 13y ago
Trackpads have a major issue. They are not accurate. If you heighten the sensitivity, they have severe z-axis problems (worse than any mouse) and decreasing the sensitivity makes motions slower and less responsive. Because of the size of the target (the human finger) there is no definitive "this is where I am". Several other of their ideas are in error. Larger trackballs are not needed (logitech and kesington both make popular trackballs with small radii that perform well. The weight of the ball is also a red herring as it is possible to make lighter balls if needed. The "issue" of cleaning is minimal and a non-issue overall (ask any trackball user). The idea that circuit space is constrained is also a non-issue. Modern trackballs use a laser to read the ball (a feature of trackballs is no z-axis movement) The circuitry to deal with this is small as is the circuitry for much of the rest of the device. The real argument is that the material cost is higher, so they'd rather use inferior design and bump up profit margins. Most gamers will pay over $50 for a mouse (with some of us giving over $100 for our mice or trackballs). I'd rather have a quality device and pay a little more.
- pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
  Have you used a Steam Controller?
- Tyr42 13y ago
  What do you mean by z-axis movement?

cfreeman 13y ago

This isn't a product for high-level competitive gaming. This is a product that allows the average gamer to play the vast catalog of steam games from the couch.