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I've played with the Firefox Metro UI for about half an hour now - obviously since my post - and I really like it. It's a solid start. Is it possible that the

I've played with the Firefox Metro UI for about half an hour now - obviously since my post - and I really like it. It's a solid start. Is it possible that the reason you're seeing low use is because users aren't aware the option exists? Also, why are features in Firefox Metro not ported to Desktop? Touch zoom and scroll for example, are vastly superior in Windows 8 Mode right now.

JohnTHaller 13y ago
It's likely that a combination of these: 1. Low percentage of Windows 8/8.1 users among Firefox testers 2. Low percentage of Windows 8/8.1 users among Firefox developers 3. Low usage of the Windows Metro/Modern UI (I don't know anyone that uses it on a desktop or laptop besides playing solitaire) 4. Low adoption of Windows RT tablets/convertibles (these are the ones that are forced to use a Metro/Modern browser)
- makosdv 13y ago
  The first thing I did after getting Windows 8/8.1 on my new laptop was to install StartIsBack and disable all the Metro/Modern UI stuff. I find it very annoying (especially in a non-touch environment). I'm fine with Mozilla focusing on Firefox for Desktop and Android. I'm a big user of both.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    Yeah. Firefox on desktop (Mac, Linux, Windows), Firefox for Android, and Firefox OS (for that mobile phone competition angle). No need for Firefox on Metro right now (hardly any users and the ones there are don't know what different browsers are anyway) or Firefox on iOS (since it would just be a UI skin over the gimped version of Mobile Safari thanks to Apple's anti-competitive rules).
- yohui 13y ago
  Regarding #4, Microsoft doesn't allow competing browsers on Windows RT anyway. So even the users forced to use Metro would never experience Firefox's Metro mode. As noted in the linked blog post: > At first, it looked like we would be locked out completely. We eventually broke open Metro (though never the RT line of ARM-based products) and we got to work.
  - sp332 13y ago
    Unless I missed something, you're allowed to make browsers for WinRT, but for "security reasons" they disallow access to certain system calls that are necessary for a fast Javascript JIT. Only Internet Explorer gets to use those "private" system calls.
    - JohnTHaller 13y ago
      That is a annoying, but a ton more open than iOS which won't even let you do Javascript at all. So, you're fored into to doing a UI skin atop the slower, non-JIT Mobile Safari renderer.
      - dottrap 13y ago
        This statement is completely untrue. - iOS forbids JIT just like Windows, making it no worse than Windows. - iOS 7 made JavaScriptCore public API so all iOS apps may use JavaScript. - Pre-iOS 7, companies were already embedding SpiderMonkey and their own forks of JavaScriptCore in iOS apps. This is allowed as long as JIT is off.
mbrubeck 13y ago
Yes, lack of awareness was definitely a major contributor to lack of usage. See my other comments on this post for more on that topic. Firefox for Metro has been a testbed for graphics/scrolling/touch technology that we want to eventually land in Firefox for desktop. Things like off-main-thread compositing were enabled in Windows Metro before Windows desktop because (a) responsive scrolling and zooming is more critical in a browser designed for touch, and (b) supporting it just in the new Windows 8 environment requires less development and testing than supporting it across all the desktop OS versions where Firefox runs (and integrating it into existing graphics and input code for those platforms). But it should all make its way into the desktop version eventually.
sliverstorm 13y ago
Is it possible that the reason you're seeing low use is because users aren't aware the option exists? As a Windows 8.1 user who didn't know this option exists, I feel like it might be.
- batoure 13y ago
  Agreed been using windows 8/8.1 since release have never heard of this pretty much ditched my remaining Firefox use for chrome because of the lack of any sort of visible attempt. The state of Firefox for desktop made it feel like Firefox was giving up on windows in general.

JohnTHaller 13y ago

It's likely that a combination of these: 1. Low percentage of Windows 8/8.1 users among Firefox testers 2. Low percentage of Windows 8/8.1 users among Firefox developers 3. Low usage of the Windows Metro/Modern UI (I don't know anyone that uses it on a desktop or laptop besides playing solitaire) 4. Low adoption of Windows RT tablets/convertibles (these are the ones that are forced to use a Metro/Modern browser)

makosdv 13y ago
The first thing I did after getting Windows 8/8.1 on my new laptop was to install StartIsBack and disable all the Metro/Modern UI stuff. I find it very annoying (especially in a non-touch environment). I'm fine with Mozilla focusing on Firefox for Desktop and Android. I'm a big user of both.
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  Yeah. Firefox on desktop (Mac, Linux, Windows), Firefox for Android, and Firefox OS (for that mobile phone competition angle). No need for Firefox on Metro right now (hardly any users and the ones there are don't know what different browsers are anyway) or Firefox on iOS (since it would just be a UI skin over the gimped version of Mobile Safari thanks to Apple's anti-competitive rules).
yohui 13y ago
Regarding #4, Microsoft doesn't allow competing browsers on Windows RT anyway. So even the users forced to use Metro would never experience Firefox's Metro mode. As noted in the linked blog post: > At first, it looked like we would be locked out completely. We eventually broke open Metro (though never the RT line of ARM-based products) and we got to work.
- sp332 13y ago
  Unless I missed something, you're allowed to make browsers for WinRT, but for "security reasons" they disallow access to certain system calls that are necessary for a fast Javascript JIT. Only Internet Explorer gets to use those "private" system calls.
  - JohnTHaller 13y ago
    That is a annoying, but a ton more open than iOS which won't even let you do Javascript at all. So, you're fored into to doing a UI skin atop the slower, non-JIT Mobile Safari renderer.
    - dottrap 13y ago
      This statement is completely untrue. - iOS forbids JIT just like Windows, making it no worse than Windows. - iOS 7 made JavaScriptCore public API so all iOS apps may use JavaScript. - Pre-iOS 7, companies were already embedding SpiderMonkey and their own forks of JavaScriptCore in iOS apps. This is allowed as long as JIT is off.

mbrubeck 13y ago

Yes, lack of awareness was definitely a major contributor to lack of usage. See my other comments on this post for more on that topic. Firefox for Metro has been a testbed for graphics/scrolling/touch technology that we want to eventually land in Firefox for desktop. Things like off-main-thread compositing were enabled in Windows Metro before Windows desktop because (a) responsive scrolling and zooming is more critical in a browser designed for touch, and (b) supporting it just in the new Windows 8 environment requires less development and testing than supporting it across all the desktop OS versions where Firefox runs (and integrating it into existing graphics and input code for those platforms). But it should all make its way into the desktop version eventually.

sliverstorm 13y ago

Is it possible that the reason you're seeing low use is because users aren't aware the option exists? As a Windows 8.1 user who didn't know this option exists, I feel like it might be.

batoure 13y ago
Agreed been using windows 8/8.1 since release have never heard of this pretty much ditched my remaining Firefox use for chrome because of the lack of any sort of visible attempt. The state of Firefox for desktop made it feel like Firefox was giving up on windows in general.