5 ms·

New Jersey has a lot of these strange laws. They also force you to have full service at the gas station. The lobbies force the issue.

vampirechicken 13y ago
The last time I was in NJ, the full-service gas there was the same price as the self-serve in suburban NY. Maybe that's changed, but given the hug number of commuters in NJ, I conclude it likely that holy hell would have been raised of full-serve was significantly more expensive.
- oh_sigh 13y ago
  States impose different taxes on their gas. Presumably if NJ allowed self-pump, those prices would be slightly lower. However, in the grand scheme of things, the eliminating the payroll costs from the gas price in NJ would barely have any impact. At a normal gas station which is neither busy nor desolate, an attendant may be able to serve, let's say, 30 cars an hour. If they each get $20 worth of gas, and the total cost of the employee per hour is $20, then the prices would go down only a fraction of a percent if he was eliminated.
  - andymcsherry 13y ago
    $20 / ($20 * 30) = 3.3%
    - oh_sigh 13y ago
      Woops! I downgraded my estimates and never updated my text :(
  - joesmo 13y ago
    This doesn't take into account the missed sales when stations are closed, nor the cost to the community of having police officers police this (yes, they do even though the pumps shut off automatically).
- Bluestrike2 13y ago
  Those low prices are largely because NJ has some of the lowest gas taxes in the country (48th) whereas NY has the highest.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Additionally many U.S. oil refineries are right in NJ so they don't have to pay anywhere near the logistical costs that other states have to.
- the_ancient 13y ago
  last time a saw a full service station I was 5 years old Get out a pump your own damn gas.... jeeze
  - dmarkow 13y ago
    It's the same in Oregon. You're not allowed to pump your own gas even if you want to.
    - kabdib 13y ago
      Unless you're on a motorcycle. Then none of the attendants want to deal with you -- they hand you the gas pump nozzle and you do the filling. I don't know what the party line is to justify the gas attendant rules. If it's "consumer safety" then it's bullshit.
      - JoshTriplett 13y ago
        > I don't know what the party line is to justify the gas attendant rules. Blatant employment protectionism. Every time it comes up on a ballot the "statement in favor" is always primarily employment protectionism. The arguments are generally of the form "if we allowed self service, nobody would pay for full service, and those jobs would go away". As with many similarly obnoxious laws: Portland votes for it, the rest of Oregon votes against it, and Portland wins.
        Crito 13y ago
        Who actually lobbies for it? I can't imagine that gas station attendants themselves have much sway, and I don't see why station owners would want to keep it that way. Is it just regular old people in Portland who honestly believe it is best, even without any lobbying or propaganda?
        repsilat 13y ago
        People aren't smart. They like full-service, and they know it'd disappear if it wasn't the law. What they don't realise is that the reason it'd disappear is that they don't like it enough to pay extra for it. The stations themselves might not be against full-service, either (at least away from state borders.) It's an extra cost, true, but it's paid by all of their competitors, too, so it just drives prices up. Demand is pretty inelastic, so profits aren't much affected. This might change with electric and fuel-efficient cars becoming more common, but it's hard to think long-term when you're selling oil.
marincounty 13y ago
I once had a sweet, innocent, virgin girlfriend who was raised in New Jersey. She arrived in Califirnia, and We started to go out. As I got to know her--I saw the New Jersey upbringing peak out. I started slowly. Her major in college changed to business. She believed it was O.k. to cheat in order to pass a test. She believed it was just fine to step on people to get ahead. She would make a sandwich, after sex, and always give me the smaller half. Oh yea, she really didn't care about the homeless, animals, or anyone other than herself and mom. At first--I just thought she was young and naive, but after awhile I think New Jersey rubbed off? I always thought what I would say to her if I ran into her. I think it would be, "Let's go to France and live out The last Tango in Paris, without the fingernail scene, and the gunshot." Yea--She had a body that was well spectacular.
to3m 13y ago
I believe you can fill your own car if it takes diesel fuel. (This is probably not that interesting to most people, not even those who live in New Jersey, but it might be some evidence for - or, perhaps, against... - the idea that this is a strange law.)
timthorn 13y ago
Yeah, last time I filled up in NJ one of the attendants was smoking at the pumps. Never been so nervous!
- jcampbell1 13y ago
  I have tried to light gasoline with a cigarette. After several hours of trying, I finally figured out how to do it. It requires smoking the cigarette with vacuum cleaner, while spraying compressed oxygen. You then get a small flame on the paper which will ignite the gas. My tests suggest pumping gas wearing a sweater is probably more dangerous than smoking. Igniting vapors with a static spark is actually much easier. If you car is newer than 2006, there is basically zero chance you are in any danger. The ORVR systems are a really nice piece of engineering that is mandatory.
  - mschuster91 13y ago
    The problem is not the cigarette itself but the flame used to ignite the cigarette in the first place.

vampirechicken 13y ago

The last time I was in NJ, the full-service gas there was the same price as the self-serve in suburban NY. Maybe that's changed, but given the hug number of commuters in NJ, I conclude it likely that holy hell would have been raised of full-serve was significantly more expensive.

oh_sigh 13y ago
States impose different taxes on their gas. Presumably if NJ allowed self-pump, those prices would be slightly lower. However, in the grand scheme of things, the eliminating the payroll costs from the gas price in NJ would barely have any impact. At a normal gas station which is neither busy nor desolate, an attendant may be able to serve, let's say, 30 cars an hour. If they each get $20 worth of gas, and the total cost of the employee per hour is $20, then the prices would go down only a fraction of a percent if he was eliminated.
- andymcsherry 13y ago
  $20 / ($20 * 30) = 3.3%
  - oh_sigh 13y ago
    Woops! I downgraded my estimates and never updated my text :(
- joesmo 13y ago
  This doesn't take into account the missed sales when stations are closed, nor the cost to the community of having police officers police this (yes, they do even though the pumps shut off automatically).
Bluestrike2 13y ago
Those low prices are largely because NJ has some of the lowest gas taxes in the country (48th) whereas NY has the highest.
- mpyne 13y ago
  Additionally many U.S. oil refineries are right in NJ so they don't have to pay anywhere near the logistical costs that other states have to.
the_ancient 13y ago
last time a saw a full service station I was 5 years old Get out a pump your own damn gas.... jeeze
- dmarkow 13y ago
  It's the same in Oregon. You're not allowed to pump your own gas even if you want to.
  - kabdib 13y ago
    Unless you're on a motorcycle. Then none of the attendants want to deal with you -- they hand you the gas pump nozzle and you do the filling. I don't know what the party line is to justify the gas attendant rules. If it's "consumer safety" then it's bullshit.
    - JoshTriplett 13y ago
      > I don't know what the party line is to justify the gas attendant rules. Blatant employment protectionism. Every time it comes up on a ballot the "statement in favor" is always primarily employment protectionism. The arguments are generally of the form "if we allowed self service, nobody would pay for full service, and those jobs would go away". As with many similarly obnoxious laws: Portland votes for it, the rest of Oregon votes against it, and Portland wins.
      - Crito 13y ago
        Who actually lobbies for it? I can't imagine that gas station attendants themselves have much sway, and I don't see why station owners would want to keep it that way. Is it just regular old people in Portland who honestly believe it is best, even without any lobbying or propaganda?
        repsilat 13y ago
        People aren't smart. They like full-service, and they know it'd disappear if it wasn't the law. What they don't realise is that the reason it'd disappear is that they don't like it enough to pay extra for it. The stations themselves might not be against full-service, either (at least away from state borders.) It's an extra cost, true, but it's paid by all of their competitors, too, so it just drives prices up. Demand is pretty inelastic, so profits aren't much affected. This might change with electric and fuel-efficient cars becoming more common, but it's hard to think long-term when you're selling oil.

marincounty 13y ago

I once had a sweet, innocent, virgin girlfriend who was raised in New Jersey. She arrived in Califirnia, and We started to go out. As I got to know her--I saw the New Jersey upbringing peak out. I started slowly. Her major in college changed to business. She believed it was O.k. to cheat in order to pass a test. She believed it was just fine to step on people to get ahead. She would make a sandwich, after sex, and always give me the smaller half. Oh yea, she really didn't care about the homeless, animals, or anyone other than herself and mom. At first--I just thought she was young and naive, but after awhile I think New Jersey rubbed off? I always thought what I would say to her if I ran into her. I think it would be, "Let's go to France and live out The last Tango in Paris, without the fingernail scene, and the gunshot." Yea--She had a body that was well spectacular.

to3m 13y ago

I believe you can fill your own car if it takes diesel fuel. (This is probably not that interesting to most people, not even those who live in New Jersey, but it might be some evidence for - or, perhaps, against... - the idea that this is a strange law.)

timthorn 13y ago

Yeah, last time I filled up in NJ one of the attendants was smoking at the pumps. Never been so nervous!

jcampbell1 13y ago
I have tried to light gasoline with a cigarette. After several hours of trying, I finally figured out how to do it. It requires smoking the cigarette with vacuum cleaner, while spraying compressed oxygen. You then get a small flame on the paper which will ignite the gas. My tests suggest pumping gas wearing a sweater is probably more dangerous than smoking. Igniting vapors with a static spark is actually much easier. If you car is newer than 2006, there is basically zero chance you are in any danger. The ORVR systems are a really nice piece of engineering that is mandatory.
- mschuster91 13y ago
  The problem is not the cigarette itself but the flame used to ignite the cigarette in the first place.