5 ms·

On the topic of pirated content, I was an early contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter, and I received my "digital download" today. It consisted of

On the topic of pirated content, I was an early contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter, and I received my "digital download" today. It consisted of a link to sign up to two separate websites to download a specific player that would stream the video for me on supported platforms only. Also, the HD version might not be available right away. I checked and the torrent of the HD version had been online for 30 minutes already. Why do they bother with this bullshit? It makes no logical sense and all it does is hurt them.

lukifer 13y ago
I think it boils down to the psychology of "something to gain" vs. "something to lose". New creatives who are kickstarting and bootstrapping lean towards the former, and are fine with relinquishing control if it means they get sales at all. Old guard suits are banking on a statistically predictable return rate, and focus on reducing risks to that return, even at the cost of additional short-term profits or long-term goodwill. Of course, the fact that Veronica Mars was kickstarted puts a hole in my theory. :) I'm guessing that its stakeholders are still partially in the old guard mindset, and/or they're trusting Hollywood's "best practices" for digital distribution. (They may also be under pre-existing contract restrictions for the Veronica Mars IP.)
- nasalgoat 13y ago
  I definitely believe it's the latter - the IP holders think they're protecting their content when in fact they are only increasing the piracy of it.
  - drawkbox 13y ago
    I agree. The notion of creating false demand on the internet by constraining supply is not going to work ever, as it is ad infinitum a cat and mouse game. What does work is making content that is desired easy to get to and consume (at their own pace without delays before releases etc) at wide scale. People will pay for ease and they do like rewarding the creators of good entertainment and educational services. The better experience will always win, even if it is pay. Where before content creators wanted everyone tuning in at one time for big ad dollars and network effect, now it is the opposite, they should want consumers to drift through their lands of content at their leisure and not want to leave. This actually distributes traffic and demand as well so there aren't huge funnels of bandwidth hogging false demand schedules (HBOGO recently failed on the last episode of True Detective, where House of Cards people watch more distributed because it is all available at once).
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Counterpoint: Louis CK releases his videos for $5 and says please don't pirate it. People do I'm sure, but there are enough people who see the value. I paid the $5 because I want Louis to keep doing his thing.
  - lukifer 13y ago
    I think of Louis CK as being more on the indie "something to gain" side, even though he risked serious money out-of-pocket on his first special. He wasn't constrained by a history of previous business practices and any particular expecatations of the returns; whereas HBO has been churning out comedy specials for decades, and would never have risked their business model on a DRM-free experiment in a million years.
baby 13y ago
Wow! Without your comment I wouldn't have seen that Veronica Mars was released! I was also an early contributor but ignored most of their mails since they have a tendency to spam... (which is okay since that's what kickstarter is about). So thanks for your comment, I'm just gonna torrent the movie instead of using my flixster code. edit: I'm streaming in in Flixster right now, I had no problem (didn't have to download a player).
- bmelton 13y ago
  If you ignored the emails (like I did), you might not have noticed that you're probably also entitled to some stickers, and a T-shirt (if you pledged at the $35 level).
  - baby 13y ago
    well, I did receive that T-shirt and was very surprised!
ColinDabritz 13y ago
On the other side the 'Stripped' comics documentary, also from kickstarter got downloads out today. One link to a website, and code for DRM free download. A delightful experience. I'm glad I supported them.
b3b0p 13y ago
I was also a contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter. When I received my email today and found out it was Ultra Violet, I was quite upset. I emailed the address they have listed on the F.A.Q. site with my complaint. I backed the Kickstarter, but in order to watch it on my AppleTV I have 2 options: 1. Purchase from iTunes. or 2. Pirate. The money I spent to back the Kickstarter could have been used for the iTunes copy. Which doesn't need an external player and is easily accessible on my AppleTV. The iTunes version may have DRM, but it's easily strippable if I desire to back it up for example. Edit: Some spelling.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- DanBC 13y ago
  You kickstart something because you want to help them make it, not because you want a product in return. While you could strip the copy protections that's a crime.
  - Einstalbert 13y ago
    I'm not sure what is unclear about, "If you donate X, you will receive Y." That's not a simple donation, it's a pre-order.
    - balladeer 13y ago
      That's right! I mean there are a lot of people who are considering Kickstarter as a charity. It's not a charity! It's a funding platform and of course funding does come with the risks of projects failing, founders running away with the money. But, it certainly doesn't have to be a free lunch giveaway as in, "Hey, you wanna start a product/company and be a millionaire? Great! Take my $100 and make merry! No no, I don't want anything in return, I am just doing charity". No thank you sir! If I have to do charity, I know where the drop boxes are.
    - DanBC 13y ago
      It is very clear. It is also dishonest. That's a serious problem with Kickstarter - they allow groups to offer tiers that appear to be pre-orders and do nothing when those pre-orders are not delivered. Kickstarter isn't going to stop doing this despite all the criticism. So people need to keep reminding everyone that tier rewards are menaingless. Maybe you'll get the reward, maybe you won't, but you don't back a project for the reward but because you want to see the project succeed. Repeating this message may make kickstarter stop projects being dishonest with reward tiers.
Daiz 13y ago
I've also backed a couple projects that claimed to give me DRM-free digital downloads of video material. In one case, what I actually got was a bunch of private web streams, with promises of downloads "someday in the future when it's all finished". In another case, I also got a rather poor quality web stream with awful subtitles - eventual pirate versions offered a much higher quality product. It really is sad that even with things like Kickstarter projects, legal digital video offerings still remain awful compared to what you can get illegally.
- tjl 13y ago
  I backed an animated Grimm Fairy Tales pilot on Kickstarter and our digital download was an MP4 without DRM. So, there are people doing it.
waterlesscloud 13y ago
It's worth noting that while Veronica Mars was kickstarted, Warner Brothers still owns it. I strongly suspect they're the entity responsible for the distribution decisions.
- odonnellryan 13y ago
  It's a problem of separation. I wonder if the higher-ups at these media companies use their own products? Do they buy similar products?
  - jzwinck 13y ago
    The highest-ups have assistants to take care of drudgery like that. No need for the executives to waste time with a series of media players which do not work seamlessly with high-fidelity playback equipment.
    - saraid216 13y ago
      I'd honestly wouldn't be surprised if most of them didn't watch movies at all.
zwily 13y ago
Per their last update today, it sounds like they'll hook you up with a different download if you complain to customer service. Probably something still DRM'd though, likely iTunes.
Havoc 13y ago
>torrent of the HD version had been online for 30 minutes already. Same for the news servers. The TV companies could learn a thing or two from the efficiency of the pirate world.

lukifer 13y ago

I think it boils down to the psychology of "something to gain" vs. "something to lose". New creatives who are kickstarting and bootstrapping lean towards the former, and are fine with relinquishing control if it means they get sales at all. Old guard suits are banking on a statistically predictable return rate, and focus on reducing risks to that return, even at the cost of additional short-term profits or long-term goodwill. Of course, the fact that Veronica Mars was kickstarted puts a hole in my theory. :) I'm guessing that its stakeholders are still partially in the old guard mindset, and/or they're trusting Hollywood's "best practices" for digital distribution. (They may also be under pre-existing contract restrictions for the Veronica Mars IP.)

nasalgoat 13y ago
I definitely believe it's the latter - the IP holders think they're protecting their content when in fact they are only increasing the piracy of it.
- drawkbox 13y ago
  I agree. The notion of creating false demand on the internet by constraining supply is not going to work ever, as it is ad infinitum a cat and mouse game. What does work is making content that is desired easy to get to and consume (at their own pace without delays before releases etc) at wide scale. People will pay for ease and they do like rewarding the creators of good entertainment and educational services. The better experience will always win, even if it is pay. Where before content creators wanted everyone tuning in at one time for big ad dollars and network effect, now it is the opposite, they should want consumers to drift through their lands of content at their leisure and not want to leave. This actually distributes traffic and demand as well so there aren't huge funnels of bandwidth hogging false demand schedules (HBOGO recently failed on the last episode of True Detective, where House of Cards people watch more distributed because it is all available at once).
toomuchtodo 13y ago
Counterpoint: Louis CK releases his videos for $5 and says please don't pirate it. People do I'm sure, but there are enough people who see the value. I paid the $5 because I want Louis to keep doing his thing.
- lukifer 13y ago
  I think of Louis CK as being more on the indie "something to gain" side, even though he risked serious money out-of-pocket on his first special. He wasn't constrained by a history of previous business practices and any particular expecatations of the returns; whereas HBO has been churning out comedy specials for decades, and would never have risked their business model on a DRM-free experiment in a million years.

baby 13y ago

Wow! Without your comment I wouldn't have seen that Veronica Mars was released! I was also an early contributor but ignored most of their mails since they have a tendency to spam... (which is okay since that's what kickstarter is about). So thanks for your comment, I'm just gonna torrent the movie instead of using my flixster code. edit: I'm streaming in in Flixster right now, I had no problem (didn't have to download a player).

bmelton 13y ago
If you ignored the emails (like I did), you might not have noticed that you're probably also entitled to some stickers, and a T-shirt (if you pledged at the $35 level).
- baby 13y ago
  well, I did receive that T-shirt and was very surprised!

ColinDabritz 13y ago

On the other side the 'Stripped' comics documentary, also from kickstarter got downloads out today. One link to a website, and code for DRM free download. A delightful experience. I'm glad I supported them.

b3b0p 13y ago

I was also a contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter. When I received my email today and found out it was Ultra Violet, I was quite upset. I emailed the address they have listed on the F.A.Q. site with my complaint. I backed the Kickstarter, but in order to watch it on my AppleTV I have 2 options: 1. Purchase from iTunes. or 2. Pirate. The money I spent to back the Kickstarter could have been used for the iTunes copy. Which doesn't need an external player and is easily accessible on my AppleTV. The iTunes version may have DRM, but it's easily strippable if I desire to back it up for example. Edit: Some spelling.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
DanBC 13y ago
You kickstart something because you want to help them make it, not because you want a product in return. While you could strip the copy protections that's a crime.
- Einstalbert 13y ago
  I'm not sure what is unclear about, "If you donate X, you will receive Y." That's not a simple donation, it's a pre-order.
  - balladeer 13y ago
    That's right! I mean there are a lot of people who are considering Kickstarter as a charity. It's not a charity! It's a funding platform and of course funding does come with the risks of projects failing, founders running away with the money. But, it certainly doesn't have to be a free lunch giveaway as in, "Hey, you wanna start a product/company and be a millionaire? Great! Take my $100 and make merry! No no, I don't want anything in return, I am just doing charity". No thank you sir! If I have to do charity, I know where the drop boxes are.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    It is very clear. It is also dishonest. That's a serious problem with Kickstarter - they allow groups to offer tiers that appear to be pre-orders and do nothing when those pre-orders are not delivered. Kickstarter isn't going to stop doing this despite all the criticism. So people need to keep reminding everyone that tier rewards are menaingless. Maybe you'll get the reward, maybe you won't, but you don't back a project for the reward but because you want to see the project succeed. Repeating this message may make kickstarter stop projects being dishonest with reward tiers.

Daiz 13y ago

I've also backed a couple projects that claimed to give me DRM-free digital downloads of video material. In one case, what I actually got was a bunch of private web streams, with promises of downloads "someday in the future when it's all finished". In another case, I also got a rather poor quality web stream with awful subtitles - eventual pirate versions offered a much higher quality product. It really is sad that even with things like Kickstarter projects, legal digital video offerings still remain awful compared to what you can get illegally.

tjl 13y ago
I backed an animated Grimm Fairy Tales pilot on Kickstarter and our digital download was an MP4 without DRM. So, there are people doing it.

waterlesscloud 13y ago

It's worth noting that while Veronica Mars was kickstarted, Warner Brothers still owns it. I strongly suspect they're the entity responsible for the distribution decisions.

odonnellryan 13y ago
It's a problem of separation. I wonder if the higher-ups at these media companies use their own products? Do they buy similar products?
- jzwinck 13y ago
  The highest-ups have assistants to take care of drudgery like that. No need for the executives to waste time with a series of media players which do not work seamlessly with high-fidelity playback equipment.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    I'd honestly wouldn't be surprised if most of them didn't watch movies at all.

zwily 13y ago

Per their last update today, it sounds like they'll hook you up with a different download if you complain to customer service. Probably something still DRM'd though, likely iTunes.

Havoc 13y ago

>torrent of the HD version had been online for 30 minutes already. Same for the news servers. The TV companies could learn a thing or two from the efficiency of the pirate world.