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I hope people don't forget the profit motive of Mr Musk. It seems technology entrepreneurs have adopted the rhetoric of "just trying to make the world a better

by Edmond 13y ago

I hope people don't forget the profit motive of Mr Musk. It seems technology entrepreneurs have adopted the rhetoric of "just trying to make the world a better place" while conveniently ignoring their own profit making motives. I am no friend of car dealers but I am also not going to be suckered by a self-serving sales pitch. While I don't necessarily support the NJ move, I think we should start asking questions about economic value flow. If people live in one place yet all their economic activity is directed to some place on the other side of the country, what is the long term effect of this on their local economy? I don't exclude myself, we all use these web services that are highly concentrated in SV, what is going to happen to our local economies?

jrs99 13y ago
Well, if local businesses choose the services that save them a lot of money it'll probably make them more profitable and allow them to grow and hire more people.
toomuchtodo 13y ago
> I don't exclude myself, we all use these web services that are highly concentrated in SV, what is going to happen to our local economies? They adapt, as all economies must to the changing winds.
- Edmond 13y ago
  That is an optimistic take, the evidence so far with the move of manufacturing to low-wage countries suggests otherwise.
  - nazgulnarsil 13y ago
    Oh no! I might take a slight hit to my standard of living while the developing world massively increases theirs!
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    Isn't that what we preach here as automation puts half the US workforce out of business? Oh, what's that? I'm a Javascript engineer making $100K+/year? It doesn't last forever (i.e 98-01 tech boom, the sands move quickly underneath us). The future is going to be not only disruptive, but destructive, to industries and people alike. How we turn out as a society will be determined by the policies we develop around handling this turbulent time in human history.
  - eru 13y ago
    > That is an optimistic take, the evidence so far with the move of manufacturing to low-wage countries suggests otherwise. Like Germany?
kenrikm 13y ago
Elon made enough off PayPal to never have to work.. ever again . Instead he put all of his money into Electric cars, solar power and rockets with a huge chance that he would loose it all (and almost did). I don't think that profit is his motivating factor.
- TheMagicHorsey 13y ago
  I seriously don't understand people that get mad when someone makes a profit. Like are those people expecting to work and earn nothing? When you risk your capital, should you not get a return? And when you risk it on something crazy like electric cars, shouldn't the profits be even that much larger, to compensate you for the out of proportion risk?
  - Edmond 13y ago
    No one's getting mad about profit making, the point being made is that when profit-making is the motive, it is disingenuous to position your argument as being about something else (such as pretending to be advocating for good government).
    - TheMagicHorsey 13y ago
      But its not about profit-making purely. Because if it was, there are easier ways to make a profit ... like the way these crony motherfuckers do it with their dealerships.
- saraid216 13y ago
  > I don't think that profit is his motivating factor. People are allowed to have multiple motivations.
- ElComradio 13y ago
  Let's not forget the $500M loan Uncle Sam, er, The American Taxpayers, made to Musk, which in the case of Tesla failing, would have been a write off for us, but in the case of Tesla succeeding, only makes us a bit of interest, while making a billionaire more billions.
darkarmani 13y ago
> I think we should start asking questions about economic value flow. If people live in one place yet all their economic activity is directed to some place on the other side of the country, what is the long term effect of this on their local economy? What do you mean? Isn't there economic value in owning a Tesla? Just because the money flows the other way doesn't mean there isn't value in owning the product.
- Edmond 13y ago
  The problem isn't with owning the Tesla but rather that the economic transaction involved in acquiring the Tesla would leave nothing to NJ (except perhaps sales tax). When you have a dealership, you have local folks working there thus some of the money that car buyers spend gets circulated locally, which would not be the case if all you have to do is point and click to get your car delivered. This is a serious concern as more economic transaction is virtualized.
  - urmish 13y ago
    You don't forcefully create jobs when there are none required. Lets get rid of computers and hire thousands of accountants instead. Tesla still has service shops where the local people would be employed.
  - pawelk 13y ago
    > the economic transaction involved in acquiring the Tesla would leave nothing to NJ As I understand the sales will shift completely from local venues to point and click only after the laws in question come into power. The stores that are about to become galleries do employ local folks and a sales ban may imply reductions on sales-related positions, right?
    - Edmond 13y ago
      I don't know if you are familiar with how car dealerships tend to be distributed but a gallery would not be an adequate replacement. Typically you have numerous dealerships in towns/cities, I suspect you won't have anywhere close to that many galleries. In any case, issues like this I believe are just the beginning of a larger debate to come. I don't see how local economies are going to sit idly by and watch us do all our shopping on Amazon.com where the only part of the transaction's economic value that enters the local vicinity is perhaps the delivery truck, that is not sustainable.
johngalt 13y ago
Making the world a better place, and making a profit shouldn't be considered divergent goals. You act as if profit motive should be treated with inherent suspicion.
manmountain 13y ago
You mean like buying billions of gallons of oil from the Middle East?

by Edmond 13y ago

jrs99 13y ago

Well, if local businesses choose the services that save them a lot of money it'll probably make them more profitable and allow them to grow and hire more people.

toomuchtodo 13y ago

> I don't exclude myself, we all use these web services that are highly concentrated in SV, what is going to happen to our local economies? They adapt, as all economies must to the changing winds.

Edmond 13y ago
That is an optimistic take, the evidence so far with the move of manufacturing to low-wage countries suggests otherwise.
- nazgulnarsil 13y ago
  Oh no! I might take a slight hit to my standard of living while the developing world massively increases theirs!
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  Isn't that what we preach here as automation puts half the US workforce out of business? Oh, what's that? I'm a Javascript engineer making $100K+/year? It doesn't last forever (i.e 98-01 tech boom, the sands move quickly underneath us). The future is going to be not only disruptive, but destructive, to industries and people alike. How we turn out as a society will be determined by the policies we develop around handling this turbulent time in human history.
- eru 13y ago
  > That is an optimistic take, the evidence so far with the move of manufacturing to low-wage countries suggests otherwise. Like Germany?

kenrikm 13y ago

Elon made enough off PayPal to never have to work.. ever again . Instead he put all of his money into Electric cars, solar power and rockets with a huge chance that he would loose it all (and almost did). I don't think that profit is his motivating factor.

TheMagicHorsey 13y ago
I seriously don't understand people that get mad when someone makes a profit. Like are those people expecting to work and earn nothing? When you risk your capital, should you not get a return? And when you risk it on something crazy like electric cars, shouldn't the profits be even that much larger, to compensate you for the out of proportion risk?
- Edmond 13y ago
  No one's getting mad about profit making, the point being made is that when profit-making is the motive, it is disingenuous to position your argument as being about something else (such as pretending to be advocating for good government).
  - TheMagicHorsey 13y ago
    But its not about profit-making purely. Because if it was, there are easier ways to make a profit ... like the way these crony motherfuckers do it with their dealerships.
saraid216 13y ago
> I don't think that profit is his motivating factor. People are allowed to have multiple motivations.
ElComradio 13y ago
Let's not forget the $500M loan Uncle Sam, er, The American Taxpayers, made to Musk, which in the case of Tesla failing, would have been a write off for us, but in the case of Tesla succeeding, only makes us a bit of interest, while making a billionaire more billions.

darkarmani 13y ago

> I think we should start asking questions about economic value flow. If people live in one place yet all their economic activity is directed to some place on the other side of the country, what is the long term effect of this on their local economy? What do you mean? Isn't there economic value in owning a Tesla? Just because the money flows the other way doesn't mean there isn't value in owning the product.

Edmond 13y ago
The problem isn't with owning the Tesla but rather that the economic transaction involved in acquiring the Tesla would leave nothing to NJ (except perhaps sales tax). When you have a dealership, you have local folks working there thus some of the money that car buyers spend gets circulated locally, which would not be the case if all you have to do is point and click to get your car delivered. This is a serious concern as more economic transaction is virtualized.
- urmish 13y ago
  You don't forcefully create jobs when there are none required. Lets get rid of computers and hire thousands of accountants instead. Tesla still has service shops where the local people would be employed.
- pawelk 13y ago
  > the economic transaction involved in acquiring the Tesla would leave nothing to NJ As I understand the sales will shift completely from local venues to point and click only after the laws in question come into power. The stores that are about to become galleries do employ local folks and a sales ban may imply reductions on sales-related positions, right?
  - Edmond 13y ago
    I don't know if you are familiar with how car dealerships tend to be distributed but a gallery would not be an adequate replacement. Typically you have numerous dealerships in towns/cities, I suspect you won't have anywhere close to that many galleries. In any case, issues like this I believe are just the beginning of a larger debate to come. I don't see how local economies are going to sit idly by and watch us do all our shopping on Amazon.com where the only part of the transaction's economic value that enters the local vicinity is perhaps the delivery truck, that is not sustainable.

johngalt 13y ago

Making the world a better place, and making a profit shouldn't be considered divergent goals. You act as if profit motive should be treated with inherent suspicion.

manmountain 13y ago

You mean like buying billions of gallons of oil from the Middle East?