3 ms·

The problem is that for most cases, management IS parasitic. It's only the edge cases with those great managers where they aren't.

by MadManE 13y ago

dasil003 13y ago
It's very easy to say that, but is it true? I am not so sure. Around here it's easy to piss on managers because we all have horror stories, but on the same token a lot of developers have no idea what it takes to organize and direct a large organization, so it's really no different than a suit ignorantly asking "What is so hard about programming? They just type a bit of text then hit a big red deploy button." As a CTO I have a foot in both camps, and I have to say there's a lot about management that developers don't know. In fact, my best management is never even known by my staff, they simply deal with a metric ton less bullshit due to a thankless move on my part—ignorance is bliss. Granted, it's probably easier for NNPMs to hang around an organization than NNPPs by virtue of tangibility, but I've seen enough NNPPs to know that programming is far from the transparent, egalitarian utopia that tech folks wish for.
- RyanZAG 13y ago
  > In fact, my best management is never even known by my staff, they simply deal with a metric ton less bullshit due to a thankless move on my part—ignorance is bliss. You should try to keep your staff in the loop. Hiding things just means that you end up with a far bigger mess when you aren't able to shield them from it. If you keep your staff in the loop from day 1, it becomes far easier to deal with problems later. Because they won't even be problems then, just challenges that everyone knows about.
  - dasil003 13y ago
    That's awfully presumptuous of you since you have no idea what I'm talking about.
- codeonfire 13y ago
  This is the quintessential management tactic, FUD it up. "Are you sure managers are playing games and trying to manipulate things?" The answer is yes, there ae hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in compensation in play, of course managers are going to play games, steal credit, whatever it takes to stay employed and keep the money flowing.
  - dasil003 13y ago
    What are you talking about? This is not FUD, I'm telling you something that you seem to know nothing about, so maybe you should sit down and listen for a minute. Why makes you axiomatically claim "of course" managers are going to be sociopaths? That is not a given at all. There are good actors and bad actors on all sides. Do you think there aren't developers who play games to protect their turf and do the minimum to get by while collecting a paycheck from a business that they contribute nothing meaningful to?

The problem is that for most cases, management IS parasitic. It's only the edge cases with those great managers where they aren't.

by MadManE 13y ago

The problem is that for most cases, management IS parasitic. It's only the edge cases with those great managers where they aren't.

dasil003 13y ago

It's very easy to say that, but is it true? I am not so sure. Around here it's easy to piss on managers because we all have horror stories, but on the same token a lot of developers have no idea what it takes to organize and direct a large organization, so it's really no different than a suit ignorantly asking "What is so hard about programming? They just type a bit of text then hit a big red deploy button." As a CTO I have a foot in both camps, and I have to say there's a lot about management that developers don't know. In fact, my best management is never even known by my staff, they simply deal with a metric ton less bullshit due to a thankless move on my part—ignorance is bliss. Granted, it's probably easier for NNPMs to hang around an organization than NNPPs by virtue of tangibility, but I've seen enough NNPPs to know that programming is far from the transparent, egalitarian utopia that tech folks wish for.

RyanZAG 13y ago
> In fact, my best management is never even known by my staff, they simply deal with a metric ton less bullshit due to a thankless move on my part—ignorance is bliss. You should try to keep your staff in the loop. Hiding things just means that you end up with a far bigger mess when you aren't able to shield them from it. If you keep your staff in the loop from day 1, it becomes far easier to deal with problems later. Because they won't even be problems then, just challenges that everyone knows about.
- dasil003 13y ago
  That's awfully presumptuous of you since you have no idea what I'm talking about.
codeonfire 13y ago
This is the quintessential management tactic, FUD it up. "Are you sure managers are playing games and trying to manipulate things?" The answer is yes, there ae hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in compensation in play, of course managers are going to play games, steal credit, whatever it takes to stay employed and keep the money flowing.
- dasil003 13y ago
  What are you talking about? This is not FUD, I'm telling you something that you seem to know nothing about, so maybe you should sit down and listen for a minute. Why makes you axiomatically claim "of course" managers are going to be sociopaths? That is not a given at all. There are good actors and bad actors on all sides. Do you think there aren't developers who play games to protect their turf and do the minimum to get by while collecting a paycheck from a business that they contribute nothing meaningful to?