7 ms·

Clojure on the Mac App Store

135 points by gw 13y ago

visualR 13y ago
Awesome
phazmatis 13y ago
That's an informative little blog post. I hope it inspires porting more IDEs & language runtimes to mobile.
- AndreasFrom 13y ago
  Mobile? Wouldn't that be even harder?
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    On iOS front, there are a few native code compilers available for Java, like RoboVM and Codename One. On Android, there is the issue Clojure is still a bit fat and uses too much reflection during startup. ART might make it harder as it is a AOT native compiler. On WP, there are currently no efforts for Java support, other than maybe via ikvm.net. Or Clojure-CLR.
    - Flow 13y ago
      Tried compiling Clojure->Scheme->C?
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        Not yet, but the Clojure->Scheme and Clojure->native(LLVM) do look appealing. However I tend not to like having layers between language and final execution target, as it increases debugging headaches.
- mwfunk 13y ago
  This is for the Mac App Store, this is not for iOS (so not mobile). Still very cool though.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  For mobile we should support the nice work of the RoboVM guys, which are doing a native code compiler for Java based on LLVM. http://www.robovm.org/ http://www.robovm.org/
- autodidakto 13y ago
  Relevant: Haskell + vim + iPad = Raskell. Basic right now, but the author has big plans for unique ways of interacting with the code. Same author also does a Scheme IDE (Lisping)
- juliangamble 13y ago
  An approach to getting Clojure on Mobile has been the approach that Weathertron used. https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/weathertron-live-rain-snow/id660925162?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/weathertron-live-rain-snow/i... They compiled the Clojure(Script) down to Javascript, combined it with Angular and packaged it up http://keminglabs.com/blog/angular-cljs-weather-app/ http://keminglabs.com/blog/angular-cljs-weather-app/
jayvanguard 13y ago
They don't make it easy, do they? Thanks for the information...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
wiradikusuma 13y ago
Does it mean that other Java apps (including Clojure apps we create) cannot use shared .m2 folder? (i.e. will be duplicate .m2, one in $HOME and the other one exclusively for Nightcode)
- gw 13y ago
  Yes, if you use Leiningen separately, you'll have two separate .m2 folders.
lvh 13y ago
You should buy it just so you can support with play-clj, a library for making games from the same author consisting bindings to libgdx.
- acj 13y ago
  I'm not a game dev, but that makes me extra glad that I bought a copy. There's a lot to like: slogging through a set of thorny problems, documenting them clearly to help others find their way, and taking donations through a system that many of us are already hooked into (despite its issues and extra hurdles, as demonstrated here). Thanks.
edwinnathaniel 13y ago
The pure Java, on the other hand, doesn't have to deal with any of this mess (hopefully). Here's how to package your app for Mac App Store: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/packagingAppsForMac.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/p... ... combine with Maven shade plugin (something that creates Uber Jar), it should be smooth.
- gw 13y ago
  I actually linked to that in the post. I don't think a pure Java app would necessarily be easier; you would still need to use native dialogs and a Java-Cocoa bridge to deal with sandboxing.
  - edwinnathaniel 13y ago
    Hm, I might've missed that. Carry on! By the way, thank you very much for writing the article. I've been tempted to try Clojure to build something desktop related :).
EdSharkey 13y ago
These app stores are stifling. They're injecting arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles that just hold developers back. I'm not saying HTML/CSS/JS development is a panacea, it's all painful awkwardness with occasional sublime moments. But at least I am my own master when I deploy my apps to the Web.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- WebAppsSuck 13y ago
  Yet Im sure most of your web apps are shitty nonetheless
- chrisdevereux 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure the browser sandbox is more restrictive than the MAS one.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >They're injecting arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles that just hold developers back. Arbitrary nonsense like a sandbox? Didn't we learn anything from when viruses were rampant in earlier OSs? >I'm not saying HTML/CSS/JS development is a panacea, it's all painful awkwardness with occasional sublime moments. But at least I am my own master when I deploy my apps to the Web. So the solution to the "arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles" of the native App Stores is web development? As if that doesn't have tons of arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles itself compared to native development...
  - pjlegato 13y ago
    Sandboxes are a good idea. The bizarre hoops that Apple makes you jump through to actually use your app's sandbox if you're not an Objective C programmer are not.
    - coldtea 13y ago
dopamean 13y ago
I have only just now heard of Nightcode. I've been using Light Table and am pretty fond of it but I'll definitely have a look at Nightcode. Thanks man.
stcredzero 13y ago
Hmm, what if one turned Nightcode into a "batteries included" Cocoa app development/packaging/Mac App Store deployment tool?
- NoodleIncident 13y ago
  I don't know why this got downvoted. Right now, I see no reason to use Nightcode, Lighttable or any other clojure IDE over raw command line tools. Publishing to the Mac App Store is (as this shows) a difficult but potentially automatable process, and would be a concrete use-case to point to. ...of course, this is from the perspective of someone who doesn't use Clojure IDEs. I just didn't think that the parent deserved to be downvoted.
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    I just didn't think that the parent deserved to be downvoted. I have a penchant for asking questions that the shallow knee-jerk HN contingent downvotes, which is then followed by the majority of reasonable thinkers up-voting.
jgalt212 13y ago
How many man hours would it take to move Clojure from the JVM to native code/C back-end? Folks go on and on about the good things about running on top of the JVM, but I just see it as Clojure's Achille's Heel. If I ever hit is super big, I'd def look to fund moving/forking Clojure away from JVM. As an aside, would it have been easier for this fellow to have written and distributed his code in Clojurescript, and have node.js as the back-end?
- coolsunglasses 13y ago
  Clojure only makes sense in the presence of a "host" environment providing the backing libraries. A "native" Clojure is a contradiction. You probably just want Haskell. Nicer language anyway :)
  - jonnybgood 13y ago
    No, I think he/she wants Racket. Only Racket has the capability of being a "JVM-less Clojure". It's really all about the ecosystems, though, and Clojure is winning in that regard no less due to the JVM.
- willismichael 13y ago
  > I'd def look I see what you did there.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
elwell 13y ago
Mostly unrelated, but: I can't believe Apple still uses the misnomer itunes to describe their entire app market. Google was able to rebrand their Android Market to Google Play (which was worse imho) without too much trouble.
- ihuman 13y ago
  Technically, they don't us it for their entire app market. They use it for the iOS app market when using desktop computers. On iOS devices, it is separate from the iTunes app; on Macs, it is only in the Mac App Store app. Also, ebooks are separate from iTunes on both Mac and iOS; iTunes is only used for syncing ebooks to iOS devices.

135 points by gw 13y ago

visualR 13y ago

Awesome

phazmatis 13y ago

That's an informative little blog post. I hope it inspires porting more IDEs & language runtimes to mobile.

AndreasFrom 13y ago
Mobile? Wouldn't that be even harder?
- pjmlp 13y ago
  On iOS front, there are a few native code compilers available for Java, like RoboVM and Codename One. On Android, there is the issue Clojure is still a bit fat and uses too much reflection during startup. ART might make it harder as it is a AOT native compiler. On WP, there are currently no efforts for Java support, other than maybe via ikvm.net. Or Clojure-CLR.
  - Flow 13y ago
    Tried compiling Clojure->Scheme->C?
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      Not yet, but the Clojure->Scheme and Clojure->native(LLVM) do look appealing. However I tend not to like having layers between language and final execution target, as it increases debugging headaches.
mwfunk 13y ago
This is for the Mac App Store, this is not for iOS (so not mobile). Still very cool though.
pjmlp 13y ago
For mobile we should support the nice work of the RoboVM guys, which are doing a native code compiler for Java based on LLVM. http://www.robovm.org/ http://www.robovm.org/
autodidakto 13y ago
Relevant: Haskell + vim + iPad = Raskell. Basic right now, but the author has big plans for unique ways of interacting with the code. Same author also does a Scheme IDE (Lisping)
juliangamble 13y ago
An approach to getting Clojure on Mobile has been the approach that Weathertron used. https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/weathertron-live-rain-snow/id660925162?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/weathertron-live-rain-snow/i... They compiled the Clojure(Script) down to Javascript, combined it with Angular and packaged it up http://keminglabs.com/blog/angular-cljs-weather-app/ http://keminglabs.com/blog/angular-cljs-weather-app/

jayvanguard 13y ago

They don't make it easy, do they? Thanks for the information...

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

wiradikusuma 13y ago

Does it mean that other Java apps (including Clojure apps we create) cannot use shared .m2 folder? (i.e. will be duplicate .m2, one in $HOME and the other one exclusively for Nightcode)

gw 13y ago
Yes, if you use Leiningen separately, you'll have two separate .m2 folders.

lvh 13y ago

You should buy it just so you can support with play-clj, a library for making games from the same author consisting bindings to libgdx.

acj 13y ago
I'm not a game dev, but that makes me extra glad that I bought a copy. There's a lot to like: slogging through a set of thorny problems, documenting them clearly to help others find their way, and taking donations through a system that many of us are already hooked into (despite its issues and extra hurdles, as demonstrated here). Thanks.

edwinnathaniel 13y ago

The pure Java, on the other hand, doesn't have to deal with any of this mess (hopefully). Here's how to package your app for Mac App Store: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/packagingAppsForMac.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/p... ... combine with Maven shade plugin (something that creates Uber Jar), it should be smooth.

gw 13y ago
I actually linked to that in the post. I don't think a pure Java app would necessarily be easier; you would still need to use native dialogs and a Java-Cocoa bridge to deal with sandboxing.
- edwinnathaniel 13y ago
  Hm, I might've missed that. Carry on! By the way, thank you very much for writing the article. I've been tempted to try Clojure to build something desktop related :).

EdSharkey 13y ago

These app stores are stifling. They're injecting arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles that just hold developers back. I'm not saying HTML/CSS/JS development is a panacea, it's all painful awkwardness with occasional sublime moments. But at least I am my own master when I deploy my apps to the Web.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
WebAppsSuck 13y ago
Yet Im sure most of your web apps are shitty nonetheless
chrisdevereux 13y ago
I'm pretty sure the browser sandbox is more restrictive than the MAS one.
coldtea 13y ago
>They're injecting arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles that just hold developers back. Arbitrary nonsense like a sandbox? Didn't we learn anything from when viruses were rampant in earlier OSs? >I'm not saying HTML/CSS/JS development is a panacea, it's all painful awkwardness with occasional sublime moments. But at least I am my own master when I deploy my apps to the Web. So the solution to the "arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles" of the native App Stores is web development? As if that doesn't have tons of arbitrary non-functional nonsense and technical hurdles itself compared to native development...
- pjlegato 13y ago
  Sandboxes are a good idea. The bizarre hoops that Apple makes you jump through to actually use your app's sandbox if you're not an Objective C programmer are not.
  - coldtea 13y ago

dopamean 13y ago

I have only just now heard of Nightcode. I've been using Light Table and am pretty fond of it but I'll definitely have a look at Nightcode. Thanks man.

stcredzero 13y ago

Hmm, what if one turned Nightcode into a "batteries included" Cocoa app development/packaging/Mac App Store deployment tool?

NoodleIncident 13y ago
I don't know why this got downvoted. Right now, I see no reason to use Nightcode, Lighttable or any other clojure IDE over raw command line tools. Publishing to the Mac App Store is (as this shows) a difficult but potentially automatable process, and would be a concrete use-case to point to. ...of course, this is from the perspective of someone who doesn't use Clojure IDEs. I just didn't think that the parent deserved to be downvoted.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  I just didn't think that the parent deserved to be downvoted. I have a penchant for asking questions that the shallow knee-jerk HN contingent downvotes, which is then followed by the majority of reasonable thinkers up-voting.

jgalt212 13y ago

How many man hours would it take to move Clojure from the JVM to native code/C back-end? Folks go on and on about the good things about running on top of the JVM, but I just see it as Clojure's Achille's Heel. If I ever hit is super big, I'd def look to fund moving/forking Clojure away from JVM. As an aside, would it have been easier for this fellow to have written and distributed his code in Clojurescript, and have node.js as the back-end?

coolsunglasses 13y ago
Clojure only makes sense in the presence of a "host" environment providing the backing libraries. A "native" Clojure is a contradiction. You probably just want Haskell. Nicer language anyway :)
- jonnybgood 13y ago
  No, I think he/she wants Racket. Only Racket has the capability of being a "JVM-less Clojure". It's really all about the ecosystems, though, and Clojure is winning in that regard no less due to the JVM.
willismichael 13y ago
> I'd def look I see what you did there.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

elwell 13y ago

Mostly unrelated, but: I can't believe Apple still uses the misnomer itunes to describe their entire app market. Google was able to rebrand their Android Market to Google Play (which was worse imho) without too much trouble.

ihuman 13y ago
Technically, they don't us it for their entire app market. They use it for the iOS app market when using desktop computers. On iOS devices, it is separate from the iTunes app; on Macs, it is only in the Mac App Store app. Also, ebooks are separate from iTunes on both Mac and iOS; iTunes is only used for syncing ebooks to iOS devices.