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I love this kind of modernist, socialist utopian ideal. It's gratifying to think that whilst the idealogical battles of the 20th century were still playing out,
by sjclemmy 13y ago
I love this kind of modernist, socialist utopian ideal. It's gratifying to think that whilst the idealogical battles of the 20th century were still playing out, the idea of marshalling effort and resources toward the common good without capitalism was viewed positively.
And the chairs, I love the chairs.
It reminds me very much of the Dharma Initiative from the TV series Lost.
- sonnyz 13y agoOh yeah, I can picture the scientist guy walking out to talk about the rules of some experiment.
- dabrowski 13y agoAnd now think that quite the opposite idea, the post Pinochet free market economy, was what made Chile the richest country in South America. As a rule of thumb, good intentions bring very bad results if you need government violence to implement them.
- hdevalence 13y agoWhereas Pinochet implemented his "good intentions" without violence? Reality check, please.
- dabrowski 13y agoHe obviously did use violence. However, are you suggesting that you need government violence to minimize goverment's involvement in economy?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- rbanffy 13y agoYou must be aware your second paragraph negates the first. Pinochet's "good intentions" (which is subject to debate) were implemented through the very liberal use of violence. They should have, therefore, yielded very bad results (which they did, in the short term). One is left to conclude Allende's reforms could have yielded equally good long term results without the illegal resort to violence.
- dnautics 13y agoHuh? Allende was no saint either, he certainly used violence directly. One of the biggest complaints about Pinochet was that he did everything that Allende was accused of (including torture) but worse, of course Pinochet was in power for a longer period of time.
- rbanffy 13y agoWhat accusations are you talking about? Allende did a lot of things some may consider questionable (land redistribution, statization) but torture is usually not among them. There was some preparation for guerilla operations, from both sides, in case a coup happened (as it did) and some armed resistance to the expropriations (which were legal according to the then valid laws).
- dnautics 13y agoyou're right, torture is usually not among them these days, but it's in the historical record, and chilenos of the time were aware it was going on. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement_of_the_Chamber_of_Deputies_of_Chile https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement_of_the_Chamber_of_D... "g) It has made frequent politically motivated and illegal arrests, in addition to those already mentioned of journalists, and it has tolerated the whipping and torture of the victims;"
- rbanffy 13y agoSo, you are bringing up a document used to justify the coup as a credible source of accusations that were never proven in the years following its original publication, despite the interest of a government that used violence routinely to prove them and justify its own brutality as a lesser of two evils. Excuse me if I find it difficult to believe in it. I don't think you should take it as a representation of the truth either.