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What makes you think that JavaScript will still be the flavor-of-the-day preferred by this crowd tomorrow, though? They were pretty gung-ho about Ruby and Ruby

by Pacabel 13y ago

What makes you think that JavaScript will still be the flavor-of-the-day preferred by this crowd tomorrow, though? They were pretty gung-ho about Ruby and Ruby on Rails between 2005 and 2010 or so. Then their hype moved to JavaScript and Node.js quite rapidly. It'll very likely move on to something else soon enough.

cianomaidin 13y ago
it's very likely that the hype is going to continue. The reality is that Node.js is the first system to be used by the enterprise. Enterprise skipped Ruby and PHP, and stayed with Java and .NET. Node is really well positioned to displace these technologies on the web tier of the enterprise.
jaegerpicker 13y ago
The difference between Ruby/Rails and Node.js is that javascript is literally used everywhere on the stack. Such a HUGE volume of open source code is written in JS. Ruby/python/Java/C# have not enjoyed that advantage.
- LeonidasXIV 13y ago
  But that doesn't give any meaningful advantage. Want to do your database queries to the client? Your business logic? No. Want to put frontend engineers to write your backend? Lots of bad ideas. I mean, it is an ok feature, but by no means a killer-feature really. Ocsigen does the same thing: you can write your code in OCaml and the client-side part will by translated to JS automatically. Neat? Yes. Killer-feature? Probably not. And JavaScript is really not that great to start with, so daveloping in something else server-side is not the worst idea.
  - untog 13y ago
    The powerful use of JavaScript for me is that I can render the exact same templates on the server and the client. That's a lifesaver when you want a fast, client-based app that is also search engine indexable. And JavaScript is really not that great to start with It's fine. IMO, all languages have warts you have to work around, once you know them it becomes a non-issue. I can't think of the last time one of those "JavaScript WTF" moments actually tripped me up in real code.
  - jaegerpicker 13y ago
    I guess what I mean there is less let's have front end devs write our backend but that the ecosystem is so huge and that so many people know JS that it's a huge advantage. Nearly every single web developer that's been working over the last 20 years knows some level of javascript. No other language enjoys that advantage.
    - taude 13y ago
      The Language, (in this case JavaScript) is probably the smallest part of domain knowledge needed to be a good front-end or back-end engineer. Front-end engineer, know JavaScript? OK, optimize these queries, do we need to cache, make temp tables, map/redux against the DW, etc? Hey backend developer, know JavaScript? Why won't this render the same in Chrome 33.1 as it does IE 10...etc... JavaScript is a convenience language across the stack for when the team is small, or even a single person.
      - fat0wl 13y ago
        yup this comment trail is pretty dead-on. The problem with web dev (I've thought about this a lot) is really that the browser is kindof the hinge. So no matter what you do for unifying languages, even porting modules so they're same on node front to back-end... you still can't really ever get to a point where you're unit testing pretty reliably through the full-stack. So might as well test parts in isolation & who cares if there is one language throughout the whole stack as long as your devs are good at the languages required. One day I think the impedance between server & client will disappear, but only when the browser's role as a rendering engine diminishes or finds better integration/intimacy with the codebase. (and incidentally, i stopped caring so much about this struggle once i learned how to develop pretty reliable SOA. Haven't totally given up trying to conceptualize the perfect stack tho)
    - collyw 13y ago
      I know enough Javascript to make something work. I know enough about Databases / Python / Perl to make it work, and make it work properly.
- darkarmani 13y ago
  > Such a HUGE volume of open source code is written in JS. That's because there is a separate module for everything! Want to run "mkdir -p"? There is a module "mkdirp" just for doing that. If you implemented every command as a separate library, of course there is going to be a lot of code out there.
Offler 13y ago
JavaScript is like Gravity on the client side, and with ES6/7 it's about to become a much nicer language too. You could never run Ruby natively, in a widespread manner, on the browser. With one language you can now build a complete stack and target all devices. That's quite big.

by Pacabel 13y ago

cianomaidin 13y ago

it's very likely that the hype is going to continue. The reality is that Node.js is the first system to be used by the enterprise. Enterprise skipped Ruby and PHP, and stayed with Java and .NET. Node is really well positioned to displace these technologies on the web tier of the enterprise.

jaegerpicker 13y ago

The difference between Ruby/Rails and Node.js is that javascript is literally used everywhere on the stack. Such a HUGE volume of open source code is written in JS. Ruby/python/Java/C# have not enjoyed that advantage.

LeonidasXIV 13y ago
But that doesn't give any meaningful advantage. Want to do your database queries to the client? Your business logic? No. Want to put frontend engineers to write your backend? Lots of bad ideas. I mean, it is an ok feature, but by no means a killer-feature really. Ocsigen does the same thing: you can write your code in OCaml and the client-side part will by translated to JS automatically. Neat? Yes. Killer-feature? Probably not. And JavaScript is really not that great to start with, so daveloping in something else server-side is not the worst idea.
- untog 13y ago
  The powerful use of JavaScript for me is that I can render the exact same templates on the server and the client. That's a lifesaver when you want a fast, client-based app that is also search engine indexable. And JavaScript is really not that great to start with It's fine. IMO, all languages have warts you have to work around, once you know them it becomes a non-issue. I can't think of the last time one of those "JavaScript WTF" moments actually tripped me up in real code.
- jaegerpicker 13y ago
  I guess what I mean there is less let's have front end devs write our backend but that the ecosystem is so huge and that so many people know JS that it's a huge advantage. Nearly every single web developer that's been working over the last 20 years knows some level of javascript. No other language enjoys that advantage.
  - taude 13y ago
    The Language, (in this case JavaScript) is probably the smallest part of domain knowledge needed to be a good front-end or back-end engineer. Front-end engineer, know JavaScript? OK, optimize these queries, do we need to cache, make temp tables, map/redux against the DW, etc? Hey backend developer, know JavaScript? Why won't this render the same in Chrome 33.1 as it does IE 10...etc... JavaScript is a convenience language across the stack for when the team is small, or even a single person.
    - fat0wl 13y ago
      yup this comment trail is pretty dead-on. The problem with web dev (I've thought about this a lot) is really that the browser is kindof the hinge. So no matter what you do for unifying languages, even porting modules so they're same on node front to back-end... you still can't really ever get to a point where you're unit testing pretty reliably through the full-stack. So might as well test parts in isolation & who cares if there is one language throughout the whole stack as long as your devs are good at the languages required. One day I think the impedance between server & client will disappear, but only when the browser's role as a rendering engine diminishes or finds better integration/intimacy with the codebase. (and incidentally, i stopped caring so much about this struggle once i learned how to develop pretty reliable SOA. Haven't totally given up trying to conceptualize the perfect stack tho)
  - collyw 13y ago
    I know enough Javascript to make something work. I know enough about Databases / Python / Perl to make it work, and make it work properly.
darkarmani 13y ago
> Such a HUGE volume of open source code is written in JS. That's because there is a separate module for everything! Want to run "mkdir -p"? There is a module "mkdirp" just for doing that. If you implemented every command as a separate library, of course there is going to be a lot of code out there.

Offler 13y ago

JavaScript is like Gravity on the client side, and with ES6/7 it's about to become a much nicer language too. You could never run Ruby natively, in a widespread manner, on the browser. With one language you can now build a complete stack and target all devices. That's quite big.