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He sets up a number of straw men which completely miss the POINT of the financial transactions tax. >In very brief form, it wasn’t high speed trading, nor any
by crdoconnor 13y ago
He sets up a number of straw men which completely miss the POINT of the financial transactions tax.
>In very brief form, it wasn’t high speed trading, nor any of
>the markets where that occurs, which led to the crash.
In very brief form, the financial transactions tax is NOT about preventing another crash (other regulations are needed for this). It's about preventing HFT operators from effectively levying a tax on the rest of the participants in the equities market (e.g. pensions and value investors).
>Reducing speculation increases price volatility
Absurd. In fact, high levels of capital flows correlate with financial crises (i.e. they're a cause of volatility): http://www.crei.cat/people/broner/BDES%20pub.pdf http://www.crei.cat/people/broner/BDES%20pub.pdf
This can be seen in HFT by looking at the flash crash. Volatility gone nuts. Did that ever happen before HFT?
>the tax itself will not in fact raise any net revenues
Again it's NOT THE POINT of the tax to raise revenues, it's to discourage HFT: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/11/robin-hood-tax-how-reformers-sabotage-themselves-with-terrible-branding.html http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/11/robin-hood-tax-how-re...
>and yet will have a cost to both the workers in the form of lower wages and pensioners in lower pensions.
Not only false, the opposite is true.
The profits that HFT firms make have to come from SOMEwhere, correct? Well, they come from you. Specifically, large investors (pension funds), insurance companies, value investors, etc. Other participants in the market.
HFT takes money directly from pension funds who are executing large orders, by 'skimming' off the orders they make. Their profits are not made out of thin air.
>So an FTT would indeed drive up costs for individual investors making the
>critics correct on this very point then?
Nope. FTT is infinitesimally tiny % of a transaction. Unless you're executing millions upon millions of transactions a day that's an infinitesimally tiny amount. In which case you're NOT an individual investor, you're doing HFT... the exact kind of behavior this tax is intended to cut down on.
>Sigh. The argument is now that it’s not going to cost people very much
>because we’ve decided not to count that cost which is going to be the
>largest for people.
Firstly, HFT WITHDRAWS liquidity precisely when it is needed the most. Most algos will freeze up during times of market distress. So yeah, they're not helping when the markets are ACTUALLY suffering from a lack of liquidity.
Secondly, they're adding trading volume, not liquidity. It was never hard to actually sell or buy a stock before HFT. They're not cutting down on spreads (that's what market makers do - and HFT is NOT market making).
When the markets are operating normally, they're already very, very, very liquid (as was the case before HFT). HFT makes little to no difference.
HFT is basically legalized front running. It should be banned somehow because it is parasitic on the other participants in the equities market. The financial transactions would cut down on that, but don't expect them to give up without a fight (as this guy is witness to).
- yxhuvud 13y ago> In very brief form, the financial transactions tax is NOT about preventing another crash (other regulations are needed for this). It's about preventing HFT operators from effectively levying a tax on the rest of the participants in the equities market (e.g. pensions and value investors). Actually no. HFT drive down the costs for pensions and value investors. The ones that foot the bill is the traders and the market makers that have seen their margins collapse. > This can be seen in HFT by looking at the flash crash. Volatility gone nuts. Did that ever happen before HFT? Indeed it did. There was a flash crash in 1962 as well. The reason was similar - suddenly the market found they were out of buyers. > The profits that HFT firms make have to come from SOMEwhere, correct? Sure, but there are plenty of other players in the market that traditionally have been able to shave a lot more from investors. As for your comments that HFT is not driving down spreads, there are plenty of evidence that they do. Spreads have collapsed to nothing in the 15-20 years of operating HFTs. Mandatory reading: http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/hft_apology.html http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/hft_apology.html Don't miss part 2 and 3.
- crdoconnor 13y ago>Actually no. HFT drive down the costs for pensions and value investors. The ones that foot the bill is the traders and the market makers that have seen their margins collapse. As a % of profits gained from HFT, market making is small enough to not even be relevant. The more profitable strategies involve basically front running the market. >Indeed it did. There was a flash crash in 1962 as well. It took a YEAR for prices to rise again. That is not volatility. Or a flash crash. That is a CRASH crash. Wanna know how long it took for prices to rise again after the flash crash? 15 minutes. THAT'S volatility. One year? Eeeeeh, not so much. >Sure, but there are plenty of other players in the market that traditionally have been able to shave a lot more from investors. Yes, it is not the biggest rip off the world (or indeed the equity market) has ever seen. That doesn't change anything about its fundamental nature, however. >As for your comments that HFT is not driving down spreads, there are plenty of evidence that they do. Spreads have collapsed to nothing in the 15-20 years of operating HFTs. Spread have declined because electronic trading reduced the transaction costs of trading. It ought to be glaringly obvious that anything that happened 20 years ago had NOTHING to do with HFT. It didn't even exist in a limited form until 15 years ago and only really took off 5 years ago.