6 ms·

The Node.js job market

39 points by erikpmp 13y ago

jefflinwood 13y ago
I'm thinking that this also has more to do with the sorts of jobs that would end up on a job board (like Indeed or Monster or Dice) versus the types of jobs that appear in the "Now Hiring" HN sections. .NET being more of an enterprise technology, I'm not surprised that the first step would be for HR to make job postings on Indeed or other sites. With Node, I don't have the same impression of it being accepted in the enterprise yet (though MS is pushing it with Azure, for instance), and it's also such a young technology that not too many organizations are hiring maintenance developers for legacy projects yet. The relative trends chart is exceptionally misleading.
- Xdes 13y ago
  I don't see many job postings on HN for C# developers. When I do it's usually for senior developers and doesn't offer remote.
  - jw2013 13y ago
    That is not true. First of all, there are at least a few c# opening each month in whoishiring monthly.post. Second, a quick inspection on these posts already gave me a few of these opening that were both looking for junior dev and supports remote.
    - Xdes 13y ago
      I saw one posting for a C# consulting position January and February. Wanted 5+ years of experience and a degree with no remote option.
      - jw2013 13y ago
        just did a quick galance on feburary whoishiring post: Kaggle - San Francisco, CA We're hiring our next Software Developer - Web Platform (C#, ASP.NET). REMOTE within US timezones or E3 is a possibility for the right candidate. Kaggle runs data competitions that solve business problems for companies and provide fun and prize money to the world's community of data scientists. We're offering an opportunity to be involved in what Forbes magazine called the most novel Machine Learning applications that are "eating the world" [1]. As a developer, you'll be responsible for keeping kaggle.com (and the 140,000+ users who play there) running: everything from front-end UI work to server-side code and DB architecture. See https://www.kaggle.com/careers/ https://www.kaggle.com/careers/ to apply and learn more about our team. You may want to use regex to find more. Hope it helps.
nahname 13y ago
Where is php? I suspect nodejs and php would be inversely related to one another.
- Bahamut 13y ago
  That was my first thought as well - I would've liked to see how PHP compared in terms of demand.
  - erikpmp 13y ago
    You can add/edit/delete terms and get an updated chart at: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%2C+node.js%2C+ruby%2C+python%2C+.net%2C+php&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%...
arscan 13y ago
I don't think that this search has any smarts behind it -- it just matches on strings. So .net would include both the framework and the tld listed in the posting. For example, check out what happens if you replace .net with .org: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%2C+node.js%2C+ruby%2C+python%2C+.org&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%...
- outside1234 13y ago
  I searched on C# instead - which seems to bring it into line with what I'd expect: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+java%2C+node.js%2C+ruby%2C+python%2C+C%23%2C+php&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+java%2C+node...
  - erikpmp 13y ago
    Good point; .net in a company's url will skew the results. But C# eliminates other .net languages like VB.net, F# (a much smaller quantity). The true quantity of .NET jobs posted is probably somewhere between the .net and c# results.
  - unreal37 13y ago
    My experience is that there are more .NET jobs out there than Java. So maybe even Java suffers from some overlap in that search result. Does Java include JavaScript?
w1ntermute 13y ago
> Surprisingly .NET is much higher in demand than any of the other technologies. It's always funny when technology hipsters are surprised that the wider world doesn't share their anti-MS biases.
- enen 13y ago
  It's funny how nobody implied that.
rubiquity 13y ago
While this particular study isn't the best, one thing I have always noticed about Node.js is that the ratio of hype to job openings is way off compared to other languages in the past.
zwieback 13y ago
any guesses where the .NET uptick in early 2013 is from?
- acadien 13y ago
  According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Microsoft_Windows http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Microsoft_Windows it corresponds to the release date of windows8 and server 2012. Must be a product release correlation.
- DoritosMan 13y ago
  Probably the release of .NET 4.5, Windows 8, Server 2012, and Visual Studio 2012.
error54 13y ago
I don't know about the accuracy of this graph depicting the Node.js job market. I think a lot of companies like to sound "hip" and include Node.js to try and attract javascript engineers. YMMV but I've found most companies saying "you can hack in node" means "we've done a side project or two using Node.js"
- yasth 13y ago
  I've used it like this entirely to try trip keyword alerts. The competition for talent is brutal, and their is surprisingly not much in the way of anti-black hat SEO on most job sites. (No, I'm not proud about this) I mean it isn't like we'd stop them from using node for things, just that they'd have a lot of other stuff to do.
- dubcanada 13y ago
  This graph is about as useless as it gets. All it means is the job has that term in the job description or somewhere. What this graph really means is... "How many job descriptions contain the term ...". And that's about it.
- Scuds 13y ago
  >"we've done a side project or two using Node.js" realistically, unless you're part of a startup where the primary technology stack has yet to be defined, finding paid work in node isn't all that common.
adamb0mb1 13y ago
I work at PayScale and I'm a pretty huge Node fan. We don't use it internally, but last year (maybe the year before, I don't remember)... I made sure we could report on it. Here is some salary data on it. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=Node.js/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=Node.js/Salary I've got to run to a meeting, but I'll see if I can find more details when I get back
ebbflowgo 13y ago
there is likely some overlap between js and node.js
buckbova 13y ago
I do think node is for real. I'm a database architect by trade, but have picked up a copy of nodejs in action to try to get in on this. I plan to get up to speed and start creating sites with a MEAN stack. If all I get out of it is increased javascript skills and linux familiarlity, then it'll be time well spent. My current shop is .net/windows, but in the last couple years we've introduced nginx, python (django), and angular. Times they are a changin'.
DigitalSea 13y ago
Notice that PHP is missing from the list. I would imagine that PHP is still dominating over all over web languages. And it's not surprising to see Node.js higher than other languages like Ruby or Python, Node.js has commercial appeal and is more hip. Slight nitpick, but I noticed Javascript and Node.js n the same charts, Node.js is Javascript and Javascript is Node.js. "If your concern is finding a tech job then your trusty existing technologies are continuing to serve you well." — this statement made me laugh. Any sane technical director/lead knows better than to make a business rely on something still so new. Node.js has proven itself to an extent, but it's got a long way to go before people start using over the likes of Python or .NET. I've used Node.js a little bit myself, but mostly only when hacking on an idea, not for production use. At the end of the day, use what you like and build what you love.
- kosso 13y ago
  I agree. Node.js is JavaScript. Also, the lack of mention of PHP.
hgfgfggnnhnhnh 13y ago
Node JS Job Ad: Hipster brogrammer wanted. Lack of knowledge of other languages wanted. Thinking every part of the tech stack should be written in JS. Must create yet another layer of shit to translate into JS and pretend it is cool! Must be willing to run to the next shiny-shiny when released and be willing to abandon current projects.
- exogen 13y ago
  I was curious, so I actually searched through the Node.js job ads on indeed.com. I wanted to see some of these hipster jobs ads written by companies that are surely chasing a fad and doomed to fail. For everyone's benefit I've listed some of those companies here: Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Expedia, Staples, Nordstrom, Macy's, Disney, Hulu, Comcast, T-Mobile, AT&T, Getty, LinkedIn, Heroku, Oracle, eBay, AOL, E*TRADE, Yahoo, Walmart, Sony Computer Entertainment, Lockheed Martin, GE, HP, MLB Glad I don't work for any of THOSE jerks! /sarcasm
  - fsk 13y ago
    Microsoft is using node.js now? Maybe that's why Windows 8 was so awful.
wldlyinaccurate 13y ago
I'm curious, why do people treat Node.js and JavaScript as separate? I understand that the DOM API and Node's core libraries are different, but any good programmer can pick up new libraries and frameworks in a matter of weeks. I just find it strange that as a JavaScript developer, many recruiters (and even some companies) won't even consider me for a Node position unless I explicitly state that I have Node experience.
- Touche 13y ago
  There's still plenty of learning involved (having trained non-Node JS developers), especially learning "the Node way". I guess those companies are the types that needs someone last week, they're probably doing you a favor by not considering you. There's also JavaScript developers who are only interested in front-end development, and for them it's a good way to let them know what to expect. In reality it's not different from asking for Swing developers vs. general Java skills.
  - davedx 13y ago
    OK, I'll bite: been doing frontend development with plenty of node.js for the tooling side for a year. What is "the Node way"?
    - zecho 13y ago
      Callback hell. ;) I love node, btw!
      - mkaziz 13y ago
        Use Promises!
    - hgfgfggnnhnhnh 13y ago
      The Node Way is best described as: Forget Design Architecture is old Testing is forgotten JS is the only code Node today is shiny So here we stay Pretending to be developers Blagging all the pay
3minus1 13y ago
I'm not surprised by this. Node's grunt.js is really useful for minifying/preprocessing js/css files in front-end heavy applications. I'm not even sure how you would do all that with Java or C#.
- jbigelow76 13y ago
  Can't speak for Java but built in bundling and minification was added to ASP.NET in version 4.5 (early 2012ish?) http://www.asp.net/mvc/tutorials/mvc-4/bundling-and-minification http://www.asp.net/mvc/tutorials/mvc-4/bundling-and-minifica...
rmangi 13y ago
I find this chart to be much more useful. It's not job openings, it's "popularity" in terms of how much each language is being used. http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....
- unreal37 13y ago
  Great find.
checker659 13y ago
Is there any market for node extension writers (as in the v8 stuff)?
zecho 13y ago
I've seen node listed in job ads where node.js isn't even used at the company looking to hire, or where they'll use npm/bower/grunt tooling. It's a super trendy buzzword.
pawelwentpawel 13y ago
Indeed.co.uk is an excellent job search engine but from what I have noticed it's flooded with ads coming from recruitment agencies. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a lot of those job postings would be replicates, posted by different recruiters/agencies. Also, there seems to be quite a lot of confusion about node.js around recruiters/job postings. It is often being treated as another *.js library and put under front-end category.

39 points by erikpmp 13y ago

I'm thinking that this also has more to do with the sorts of jobs that would end up on a job board (like Indeed or Monster or Dice) versus the types of jobs that appear in the "Now Hiring" HN sections. .NET being more of an enterprise technology, I'm not surprised that the first step would be for HR to make job postings on Indeed or other sites. With Node, I don't have the same impression of it being accepted in the enterprise yet (though MS is pushing it with Azure, for instance), and it's also such a young technology that not too many organizations are hiring maintenance developers for legacy projects yet. The relative trends chart is exceptionally misleading.

Xdes 13y ago
I don't see many job postings on HN for C# developers. When I do it's usually for senior developers and doesn't offer remote.
- jw2013 13y ago
  That is not true. First of all, there are at least a few c# opening each month in whoishiring monthly.post. Second, a quick inspection on these posts already gave me a few of these opening that were both looking for junior dev and supports remote.
  - Xdes 13y ago
    I saw one posting for a C# consulting position January and February. Wanted 5+ years of experience and a degree with no remote option.
    - jw2013 13y ago
      just did a quick galance on feburary whoishiring post: Kaggle - San Francisco, CA We're hiring our next Software Developer - Web Platform (C#, ASP.NET). REMOTE within US timezones or E3 is a possibility for the right candidate. Kaggle runs data competitions that solve business problems for companies and provide fun and prize money to the world's community of data scientists. We're offering an opportunity to be involved in what Forbes magazine called the most novel Machine Learning applications that are "eating the world" [1]. As a developer, you'll be responsible for keeping kaggle.com (and the 140,000+ users who play there) running: everything from front-end UI work to server-side code and DB architecture. See https://www.kaggle.com/careers/ https://www.kaggle.com/careers/ to apply and learn more about our team. You may want to use regex to find more. Hope it helps.

nahname 13y ago

Where is php? I suspect nodejs and php would be inversely related to one another.

Bahamut 13y ago
That was my first thought as well - I would've liked to see how PHP compared in terms of demand.
- erikpmp 13y ago
  You can add/edit/delete terms and get an updated chart at: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%2C+node.js%2C+ruby%2C+python%2C+.net%2C+php&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%...

arscan 13y ago

I don't think that this search has any smarts behind it -- it just matches on strings. So .net would include both the framework and the tld listed in the posting. For example, check out what happens if you replace .net with .org: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%2C+node.js%2C+ruby%2C+python%2C+.org&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+objective+c%...

outside1234 13y ago
I searched on C# instead - which seems to bring it into line with what I'd expect: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+java%2C+node.js%2C+ruby%2C+python%2C+C%23%2C+php&l= http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=javascript%2C+java%2C+node...
- erikpmp 13y ago
  Good point; .net in a company's url will skew the results. But C# eliminates other .net languages like VB.net, F# (a much smaller quantity). The true quantity of .NET jobs posted is probably somewhere between the .net and c# results.
- unreal37 13y ago
  My experience is that there are more .NET jobs out there than Java. So maybe even Java suffers from some overlap in that search result. Does Java include JavaScript?

w1ntermute 13y ago

> Surprisingly .NET is much higher in demand than any of the other technologies. It's always funny when technology hipsters are surprised that the wider world doesn't share their anti-MS biases.

enen 13y ago
It's funny how nobody implied that.

rubiquity 13y ago

While this particular study isn't the best, one thing I have always noticed about Node.js is that the ratio of hype to job openings is way off compared to other languages in the past.

zwieback 13y ago

any guesses where the .NET uptick in early 2013 is from?

acadien 13y ago
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Microsoft_Windows http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Microsoft_Windows it corresponds to the release date of windows8 and server 2012. Must be a product release correlation.
DoritosMan 13y ago
Probably the release of .NET 4.5, Windows 8, Server 2012, and Visual Studio 2012.

error54 13y ago

I don't know about the accuracy of this graph depicting the Node.js job market. I think a lot of companies like to sound "hip" and include Node.js to try and attract javascript engineers. YMMV but I've found most companies saying "you can hack in node" means "we've done a side project or two using Node.js"

yasth 13y ago
I've used it like this entirely to try trip keyword alerts. The competition for talent is brutal, and their is surprisingly not much in the way of anti-black hat SEO on most job sites. (No, I'm not proud about this) I mean it isn't like we'd stop them from using node for things, just that they'd have a lot of other stuff to do.
dubcanada 13y ago
This graph is about as useless as it gets. All it means is the job has that term in the job description or somewhere. What this graph really means is... "How many job descriptions contain the term ...". And that's about it.
Scuds 13y ago
>"we've done a side project or two using Node.js" realistically, unless you're part of a startup where the primary technology stack has yet to be defined, finding paid work in node isn't all that common.

adamb0mb1 13y ago

I work at PayScale and I'm a pretty huge Node fan. We don't use it internally, but last year (maybe the year before, I don't remember)... I made sure we could report on it. Here is some salary data on it. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=Node.js/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=Node.js/Salary I've got to run to a meeting, but I'll see if I can find more details when I get back

ebbflowgo 13y ago

there is likely some overlap between js and node.js

buckbova 13y ago

I do think node is for real. I'm a database architect by trade, but have picked up a copy of nodejs in action to try to get in on this. I plan to get up to speed and start creating sites with a MEAN stack. If all I get out of it is increased javascript skills and linux familiarlity, then it'll be time well spent. My current shop is .net/windows, but in the last couple years we've introduced nginx, python (django), and angular. Times they are a changin'.

DigitalSea 13y ago

Notice that PHP is missing from the list. I would imagine that PHP is still dominating over all over web languages. And it's not surprising to see Node.js higher than other languages like Ruby or Python, Node.js has commercial appeal and is more hip. Slight nitpick, but I noticed Javascript and Node.js n the same charts, Node.js is Javascript and Javascript is Node.js. "If your concern is finding a tech job then your trusty existing technologies are continuing to serve you well." — this statement made me laugh. Any sane technical director/lead knows better than to make a business rely on something still so new. Node.js has proven itself to an extent, but it's got a long way to go before people start using over the likes of Python or .NET. I've used Node.js a little bit myself, but mostly only when hacking on an idea, not for production use. At the end of the day, use what you like and build what you love.

kosso 13y ago
I agree. Node.js is JavaScript. Also, the lack of mention of PHP.

hgfgfggnnhnhnh 13y ago

Node JS Job Ad: Hipster brogrammer wanted. Lack of knowledge of other languages wanted. Thinking every part of the tech stack should be written in JS. Must create yet another layer of shit to translate into JS and pretend it is cool! Must be willing to run to the next shiny-shiny when released and be willing to abandon current projects.

exogen 13y ago
I was curious, so I actually searched through the Node.js job ads on indeed.com. I wanted to see some of these hipster jobs ads written by companies that are surely chasing a fad and doomed to fail. For everyone's benefit I've listed some of those companies here: Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Expedia, Staples, Nordstrom, Macy's, Disney, Hulu, Comcast, T-Mobile, AT&T, Getty, LinkedIn, Heroku, Oracle, eBay, AOL, E*TRADE, Yahoo, Walmart, Sony Computer Entertainment, Lockheed Martin, GE, HP, MLB Glad I don't work for any of THOSE jerks! /sarcasm
- fsk 13y ago
  Microsoft is using node.js now? Maybe that's why Windows 8 was so awful.

wldlyinaccurate 13y ago

I'm curious, why do people treat Node.js and JavaScript as separate? I understand that the DOM API and Node's core libraries are different, but any good programmer can pick up new libraries and frameworks in a matter of weeks. I just find it strange that as a JavaScript developer, many recruiters (and even some companies) won't even consider me for a Node position unless I explicitly state that I have Node experience.

Touche 13y ago
There's still plenty of learning involved (having trained non-Node JS developers), especially learning "the Node way". I guess those companies are the types that needs someone last week, they're probably doing you a favor by not considering you. There's also JavaScript developers who are only interested in front-end development, and for them it's a good way to let them know what to expect. In reality it's not different from asking for Swing developers vs. general Java skills.
- davedx 13y ago
  OK, I'll bite: been doing frontend development with plenty of node.js for the tooling side for a year. What is "the Node way"?
  - zecho 13y ago
    Callback hell. ;) I love node, btw!
    - mkaziz 13y ago
      Use Promises!
  - hgfgfggnnhnhnh 13y ago
    The Node Way is best described as: Forget Design Architecture is old Testing is forgotten JS is the only code Node today is shiny So here we stay Pretending to be developers Blagging all the pay

3minus1 13y ago

I'm not surprised by this. Node's grunt.js is really useful for minifying/preprocessing js/css files in front-end heavy applications. I'm not even sure how you would do all that with Java or C#.

jbigelow76 13y ago
Can't speak for Java but built in bundling and minification was added to ASP.NET in version 4.5 (early 2012ish?) http://www.asp.net/mvc/tutorials/mvc-4/bundling-and-minification http://www.asp.net/mvc/tutorials/mvc-4/bundling-and-minifica...

rmangi 13y ago

I find this chart to be much more useful. It's not job openings, it's "popularity" in terms of how much each language is being used. http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....

unreal37 13y ago
Great find.

checker659 13y ago

Is there any market for node extension writers (as in the v8 stuff)?

zecho 13y ago

I've seen node listed in job ads where node.js isn't even used at the company looking to hire, or where they'll use npm/bower/grunt tooling. It's a super trendy buzzword.

pawelwentpawel 13y ago

Indeed.co.uk is an excellent job search engine but from what I have noticed it's flooded with ads coming from recruitment agencies. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a lot of those job postings would be replicates, posted by different recruiters/agencies. Also, there seems to be quite a lot of confusion about node.js around recruiters/job postings. It is often being treated as another *.js library and put under front-end category.