6 ms·

I don't know what pg meant, but I know what I'm still looking for: Microsoft Access, available in a cross-platform online way. And no, things like Openoffice^W

I don't know what pg meant, but I know what I'm still looking for: Microsoft Access, available in a cross-platform online way. And no, things like Openoffice^W Libreoffice Base or Kexi are about 1,000,000 miles away from even being useable, much less good.

ajcarpy2005 13y ago
Doesn't Salesforce have 'sort of' similar software in the Cloud?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
sheetjs 13y ago
> And no, things like Openoffice^W Libreoffice Base or Kexi are about 1,000,000 miles away from even being useable, much less good. ... which is why we started from the problem of document compatibility (something I really wish GDocs and Numbers for iOS focused on). In the process of building and discovering test cases (repo: https://github.com/SheetJS/test_files https://github.com/SheetJS/test_files) we found and reported bugs in OO, Apache POI, roo, xlrd and other parsers https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xls https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xls and https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xlsx https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xlsx are the parsers underlying this.
eterm 13y ago
Despite the fact I've long moved on from MS Access, I know exactly what you mean. There needs to be an application that anyone can open up and start doing database stuff with, that is cross platform but accessible to both end users who want to explore through clicks (query builders) but also those who want the power to script it (SQL and VBA). Access really delivered on that count. If it wasn't for the two factors of relatively poor performance (terrible performance when run "across" a network) and lack of cross-platform behaviour, it would be my go-to tool. I think there really is demand for a cross platform database gui that sits on top of a serverless database file. If this file can be uploaded to a website that also enables excel-like data manipulation and then downloaded/shared back as a file for manipulation by this gui tool then even better. If this tool is powerful enough to realise that it shouldn't try to execute across a network and somehow flip over to a "remote execution" mode where it targets a server rather than a file, then even better. That's the dream, nothing has ever come close. Opening an MDB across a network share. Opening large databases for long running simulations was par for the course at a company where I previously worked. One of the first things I did was make sure files were on a local drive before simulating which turned a 6 hour run into a minute long run.
- notastartup 13y ago
  I've never used MS Access before. What is the difference between it and PHPMyAdmin or HeidiSQL? What specific things made MS Access so easy to pickup and what made it powerful? For anyone else that is looking for what was described above, I'd be pretty happy to work on something new for a change. If you can please provide me some details (my email is in my profile), that would keep me motivated. My only gap in knowledge is MS Access and what it did well and what it didn't do well.
  - tlarkworthy 13y ago
    the form builder. Takes about 30 mins to get a form front end built that ordinary users can use by double clicking. You can customize quite like crazy with VB script. My experience was 8 years ago, its just so easy to hack something on a whim to solve some office task that's annoying (for internal use only, the security was a joke). The graphical database designer tool was perhaps useful for non-techies too. And the forms could be extensively customized with VB script if it didn't do what you wanted out the tin (change this color when X happens etc).
  - j45 13y ago
    Excel, and Access specifically were unique in that they helped groups validate their need for software. By the time they had given in and tried to build something themselves, be it in excel, or Access, it allowed the logical extension of 'here's the data we need' to 'here's how we need the data to connect and interact'. I think anyone who inherited an access system saw the progression from taking an excel like interpretation, to putting forms on front of it, to trying to connect the forms, to ultimately print some form of report. It was CRUD within one app, that didn't require learning 37 different technologies to make one screen work. At most, you might have to pick up VBA if you wanted to do something fancier. As much as Access makes me cringe, seeing the apps that were reasonably well architected and talked to MSSQL backends didn't look too out of place.
  - eterm 13y ago
    I've not used either of those tools, but here's some stuff that access does that I often find lacking in other tools: 1) You can copy a grid from excel, do a "paste as data" and access will automagically create a table, with the right data types and even pick up column names if headers are present. 2) You can view a table as a grid, similar to excel, and just start typing away to create data. You can do this before you even create the table to just start creating a table. 3) The drag / drop query builder is extremely easy, especially for things like cross tab queries. You can click "view as SQL" to then turn it into SQL if you want to tweak stuff. (I actually learned SQL this way) 4) foreign keys are made through a drag-drop interface "relationships" 5) The form wizard makes making forms really easy. 6) You can right click a row and delete the row. You can right click a column and delete the column. Any error messages are typically understandable and not cryptic. 7) All your data is in a file. A file which you know where it is, and you know you can click that file to open and see your tables and forms. 8) You can save queries which act almost like views / CTEs and in most queries you get a grid which you can just start editing data in if you so wish. If anyone is unfamiliar with access I'd strongly recommending getting hold of a copy to play around with, it's how to do database right for end-users.
nollidge 13y ago
Do the Forms from Google Docs come anywhere close? (Serious question having not really used either product much.)
- jamie_ca 13y ago
  No. Not even close.
salar 13y ago
The product I'm working on, Silk [1], is trying to do basically reinvent Access/FileMaker for the web age. I'm not sure if it would do what you'd want since we're not trying to replicate many of the power features of Access, but would love to hear your feedback. [1] http://www.silk.co/ http://www.silk.co/
- j45 13y ago
  Neat, thanks for sharing, I'll check it out :) Phprunner.com is another one that is a little like this genre.
pfitzsimmons 13y ago
Why don't you use QuickBase or Zoho creator? ( http://quickbase.intuit.com/ http://quickbase.intuit.com/ or https://www.zoho.com/creator/ https://www.zoho.com/creator/ )
maxerickson 13y ago
Related: http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201203 http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201203
- jellicle 13y ago
  That's excellent. And I think it shows that there is a large and, I was going to write untapped but that's obviously not true, tapped-by-exactly-one-company market to replicate Access in an online, cross-platform way.
soneca 13y ago
Something with Wordpress business model would be great. You build a tool to build tools (or a tool to build ERPs). Provide a few samples, ready from the shelf; a way to end users build simple enough systems and a way to software architects build complex and niche ERPs and sell through your marketplace. The architects would be the WP designers, creating the ERP "themes". Sounds neat to me.
mamcx 13y ago
Acces? What about foxpro! Is a big shame that MS get rid of Visual FoxPro. I still dream of build something like that. What make VFP far-far-far better than Acces? Powerfull data/dbase language (instead of basic basic), You can code triggers/stored procedures/views, etc with the fox language itself (same for reports, forms, menus, etc= Everything is Fox and fox only). Good enough to build full complex apps. Decent wizards. Probable the only good thing that acces have instead of fox is better looking GUIS and better form builder..
PaulHoule 13y ago
Every time somebody starts one of these Google buys it and shuts it down.
jordo37 13y ago
My first "engineering" job was building a tool for accessing a huge list (42,000) of interweaving and overlapping requirements for safety at an oil company. Using Access was amazing. It made it trivial to build a functional, if ugly, UI that was perfect for inside a corporate environment.

ajcarpy2005 13y ago

Doesn't Salesforce have 'sort of' similar software in the Cloud?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

sheetjs 13y ago

> And no, things like Openoffice^W Libreoffice Base or Kexi are about 1,000,000 miles away from even being useable, much less good. ... which is why we started from the problem of document compatibility (something I really wish GDocs and Numbers for iOS focused on). In the process of building and discovering test cases (repo: https://github.com/SheetJS/test_files https://github.com/SheetJS/test_files) we found and reported bugs in OO, Apache POI, roo, xlrd and other parsers https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xls https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xls and https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xlsx https://github.com/SheetJS/js-xlsx are the parsers underlying this.

eterm 13y ago

Despite the fact I've long moved on from MS Access, I know exactly what you mean. There needs to be an application that anyone can open up and start doing database stuff with, that is cross platform but accessible to both end users who want to explore through clicks (query builders) but also those who want the power to script it (SQL and VBA). Access really delivered on that count. If it wasn't for the two factors of relatively poor performance (terrible performance when run "across" a network) and lack of cross-platform behaviour, it would be my go-to tool. I think there really is demand for a cross platform database gui that sits on top of a serverless database file. If this file can be uploaded to a website that also enables excel-like data manipulation and then downloaded/shared back as a file for manipulation by this gui tool then even better. If this tool is powerful enough to realise that it shouldn't try to execute across a network and somehow flip over to a "remote execution" mode where it targets a server rather than a file, then even better. That's the dream, nothing has ever come close. Opening an MDB across a network share. Opening large databases for long running simulations was par for the course at a company where I previously worked. One of the first things I did was make sure files were on a local drive before simulating which turned a 6 hour run into a minute long run.

notastartup 13y ago
I've never used MS Access before. What is the difference between it and PHPMyAdmin or HeidiSQL? What specific things made MS Access so easy to pickup and what made it powerful? For anyone else that is looking for what was described above, I'd be pretty happy to work on something new for a change. If you can please provide me some details (my email is in my profile), that would keep me motivated. My only gap in knowledge is MS Access and what it did well and what it didn't do well.
- tlarkworthy 13y ago
  the form builder. Takes about 30 mins to get a form front end built that ordinary users can use by double clicking. You can customize quite like crazy with VB script. My experience was 8 years ago, its just so easy to hack something on a whim to solve some office task that's annoying (for internal use only, the security was a joke). The graphical database designer tool was perhaps useful for non-techies too. And the forms could be extensively customized with VB script if it didn't do what you wanted out the tin (change this color when X happens etc).
- j45 13y ago
  Excel, and Access specifically were unique in that they helped groups validate their need for software. By the time they had given in and tried to build something themselves, be it in excel, or Access, it allowed the logical extension of 'here's the data we need' to 'here's how we need the data to connect and interact'. I think anyone who inherited an access system saw the progression from taking an excel like interpretation, to putting forms on front of it, to trying to connect the forms, to ultimately print some form of report. It was CRUD within one app, that didn't require learning 37 different technologies to make one screen work. At most, you might have to pick up VBA if you wanted to do something fancier. As much as Access makes me cringe, seeing the apps that were reasonably well architected and talked to MSSQL backends didn't look too out of place.
- eterm 13y ago
  I've not used either of those tools, but here's some stuff that access does that I often find lacking in other tools: 1) You can copy a grid from excel, do a "paste as data" and access will automagically create a table, with the right data types and even pick up column names if headers are present. 2) You can view a table as a grid, similar to excel, and just start typing away to create data. You can do this before you even create the table to just start creating a table. 3) The drag / drop query builder is extremely easy, especially for things like cross tab queries. You can click "view as SQL" to then turn it into SQL if you want to tweak stuff. (I actually learned SQL this way) 4) foreign keys are made through a drag-drop interface "relationships" 5) The form wizard makes making forms really easy. 6) You can right click a row and delete the row. You can right click a column and delete the column. Any error messages are typically understandable and not cryptic. 7) All your data is in a file. A file which you know where it is, and you know you can click that file to open and see your tables and forms. 8) You can save queries which act almost like views / CTEs and in most queries you get a grid which you can just start editing data in if you so wish. If anyone is unfamiliar with access I'd strongly recommending getting hold of a copy to play around with, it's how to do database right for end-users.

nollidge 13y ago

Do the Forms from Google Docs come anywhere close? (Serious question having not really used either product much.)

jamie_ca 13y ago
No. Not even close.

salar 13y ago

The product I'm working on, Silk [1], is trying to do basically reinvent Access/FileMaker for the web age. I'm not sure if it would do what you'd want since we're not trying to replicate many of the power features of Access, but would love to hear your feedback. [1] http://www.silk.co/ http://www.silk.co/

j45 13y ago
Neat, thanks for sharing, I'll check it out :) Phprunner.com is another one that is a little like this genre.

pfitzsimmons 13y ago

Why don't you use QuickBase or Zoho creator? ( http://quickbase.intuit.com/ http://quickbase.intuit.com/ or https://www.zoho.com/creator/ https://www.zoho.com/creator/ )

maxerickson 13y ago

Related: http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201203 http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201203

jellicle 13y ago
That's excellent. And I think it shows that there is a large and, I was going to write untapped but that's obviously not true, tapped-by-exactly-one-company market to replicate Access in an online, cross-platform way.

soneca 13y ago

Something with Wordpress business model would be great. You build a tool to build tools (or a tool to build ERPs). Provide a few samples, ready from the shelf; a way to end users build simple enough systems and a way to software architects build complex and niche ERPs and sell through your marketplace. The architects would be the WP designers, creating the ERP "themes". Sounds neat to me.

mamcx 13y ago

Acces? What about foxpro! Is a big shame that MS get rid of Visual FoxPro. I still dream of build something like that. What make VFP far-far-far better than Acces? Powerfull data/dbase language (instead of basic basic), You can code triggers/stored procedures/views, etc with the fox language itself (same for reports, forms, menus, etc= Everything is Fox and fox only). Good enough to build full complex apps. Decent wizards. Probable the only good thing that acces have instead of fox is better looking GUIS and better form builder..

PaulHoule 13y ago

Every time somebody starts one of these Google buys it and shuts it down.

jordo37 13y ago

My first "engineering" job was building a tool for accessing a huge list (42,000) of interweaving and overlapping requirements for safety at an oil company. Using Access was amazing. It made it trivial to build a functional, if ugly, UI that was perfect for inside a corporate environment.