4 ms·

This is NOT about PRO-Europe or PRO-USA. It is about how difficult the current government makes it to come to the US, build business and live there (as a Europe

by nitai 13y ago

This is NOT about PRO-Europe or PRO-USA. It is about how difficult the current government makes it to come to the US, build business and live there (as a European). I personally know one CEO who runs a 80 Mil./year company in the USA, has 250 employees (3/4 are US citizens) but only received a green card or allowance to stay longer then one year in the USA 10 years into the business. That said, you can't compare the USA with the European immigration laws. As an example, there are many Americans living in Berlin. The way you can live in Berlin is by flying to Berlin and show up at the immigration within a week and tell them that you want to move here, pay taxes and work. It is even easier if you already have an employment. Additionally, there is something like a "Language" & "Artist" visa in Germany. Under these visa's you can simply stay and live here. You can even build businesses and start employing people. That's Germany. Want to live in Denmark? Same there. Want to open a business and live in Switzerland. Go register yourself and work. Right, you cannot vote and don't have a nice "credit" but at least you are given the chance to build something. Now, if there would be a startup-visa in the USA, I'm sure there would be many willing to move and try to build a business in the USA. But as it is now, you can't. I'm not taking way jobs from any US citizen, quite the contrary, we are hiring people and try to contribute to the US system.

bpaluzzi 13y ago
Sorry, but your assertion that an American can simply come to Europe and work is false. In Germany, like in the UK, you most definitely CANNOT just come over and declare your intention to work. "If you are coming to work in general employment (that is, a job that does not require you to be highly skilled or highly educated), you will need to apply for a residence permit for the purpose of general employment, and you will only be eligible if the position cannot be filled by a worker from the EU/EEA or Switzerland." (from http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/getting-a-work-permit-in-germany-29022.html http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/g...). It's the same in the UK. Germany _does_ have the "Blue Card", which is similar (at least at the very highest level) to the now discontinued Highly Skilled Migrant Worker / Tier 1 visa in the UK. The Blue Card allows you to work in Germany as long as you have a college degree and make above a certain salary (usually above €45000). Both of those scenarios are much more involved than the way you described, it however.
- nitai 13y ago
  As a company owner, wanting to open an office, deploy people and live in the chosen country, is much much easier in Europe then in the US. Just about every country welcomes you and even offers help in the form of some sort of fund or start-up program.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - bpaluzzi 13y ago
    Again, that's simply not true. A US employee trying to work in the EU will have just as difficult of a time as vice versa. Please look at the examples I and others have posted.
mattlutze 13y ago
You cannot work on a Language visa in Germany[0], and artists in Berlin are special as the country wants to promote it as an art capital of Europe[1]. In almost every case, a non-EU/Schengen citizen needs to show ability to support him/herself when moving to Germany; that person must already have a job offer, which must pay at least 37(STEM) or 47,500 (others) EUR[0]. Non-EU folks in Germany as well, for example, don't get the equivalent of a "green card" out the gate either. Looks like it's 5 years in Germany, which happens to be the same for the United States. As a manager/executive with your company, I'm surprised there weren't EB-1 Visas available, which is exactly the tool meant to support the case you were looking at. Or EB-5 visas, because interestingly, there actually is a Visa (and Green Card track) for entrepreneurs in the US [2][3]. US immigration policies are indeed crazy sometimes. Your friend probably moved to the US around/not long after 2001, I'll bet? Everything ground to a half around then as DHS was getting set up. But if you're listing all of these failings and I'm finding the opposite to be true with 20 minutes of Googling at a time, I'm suspect of the quality of support you got from your lawyers. Again, I feel a great deal of empathy for what sounds like you guys getting screwed by poor representation. I've had many friends enter the US to work and start businesses with little undue stress. [0]: http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-working-in-germany/visa/#citizens-of-other-states http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-workin... [1]: http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=1954&idartlang=2136&idcat=145&changelang=5 http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=195... [2]: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green-card-through-investment http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa
- nitai 13y ago
  Thank you for your comment. As a fact I know 10+ US citizens that have had no problem coming to Germany and live and work. All self employed and sufficient to provide for themselves for some time. It might have changed, but the last time I've checked it was way easier then getting any Visa in the USA. Speaking off, yes, we tried to get a B* visa but the 67000 visa they issue per year was filled within 3 days. One can apply again in June/July (not exactly sure).
wh0car3s 13y ago
I'll echo mattlutze and say that the EB visas are a great track to come here in the US. Also, I'm a foreigner with a non-immigrant visa, but that didn't stop me from incorporating and I know that if I hire someone or did business in another state I'll have to register or incorporate in that state (I got that by my own research, if that wasn't given to you then you received bad counsel). Not anyone can just come to Europe and just live there, In the countries you mentioned, I'll need a job offer before I can even start the process to get a work visa (I can't even visit Europe without a Schengen visa).
- nitai 13y ago
  > I can't even visit Europe without a Schengen visa Where are you from? US citizens can freely come to Europe without the need for any Visa. You can even freely travel within the Schengen area without showing your passport once.
  - bpaluzzi 13y ago
    They can come to Europe, but they cannot work.
  - wh0car3s 13y ago
    Not a US citizen (yet) - I'm a long way from getting it, considering that I'm just in the process of getting a green card; But to answer your question, I'm from the Philippines..

by nitai 13y ago

bpaluzzi 13y ago

Sorry, but your assertion that an American can simply come to Europe and work is false. In Germany, like in the UK, you most definitely CANNOT just come over and declare your intention to work. "If you are coming to work in general employment (that is, a job that does not require you to be highly skilled or highly educated), you will need to apply for a residence permit for the purpose of general employment, and you will only be eligible if the position cannot be filled by a worker from the EU/EEA or Switzerland." (from http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/getting-a-work-permit-in-germany-29022.html http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/g...). It's the same in the UK. Germany _does_ have the "Blue Card", which is similar (at least at the very highest level) to the now discontinued Highly Skilled Migrant Worker / Tier 1 visa in the UK. The Blue Card allows you to work in Germany as long as you have a college degree and make above a certain salary (usually above €45000). Both of those scenarios are much more involved than the way you described, it however.

nitai 13y ago
As a company owner, wanting to open an office, deploy people and live in the chosen country, is much much easier in Europe then in the US. Just about every country welcomes you and even offers help in the form of some sort of fund or start-up program.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- bpaluzzi 13y ago
  Again, that's simply not true. A US employee trying to work in the EU will have just as difficult of a time as vice versa. Please look at the examples I and others have posted.

mattlutze 13y ago

You cannot work on a Language visa in Germany[0], and artists in Berlin are special as the country wants to promote it as an art capital of Europe[1]. In almost every case, a non-EU/Schengen citizen needs to show ability to support him/herself when moving to Germany; that person must already have a job offer, which must pay at least 37(STEM) or 47,500 (others) EUR[0]. Non-EU folks in Germany as well, for example, don't get the equivalent of a "green card" out the gate either. Looks like it's 5 years in Germany, which happens to be the same for the United States. As a manager/executive with your company, I'm surprised there weren't EB-1 Visas available, which is exactly the tool meant to support the case you were looking at. Or EB-5 visas, because interestingly, there actually is a Visa (and Green Card track) for entrepreneurs in the US [2][3]. US immigration policies are indeed crazy sometimes. Your friend probably moved to the US around/not long after 2001, I'll bet? Everything ground to a half around then as DHS was getting set up. But if you're listing all of these failings and I'm finding the opposite to be true with 20 minutes of Googling at a time, I'm suspect of the quality of support you got from your lawyers. Again, I feel a great deal of empathy for what sounds like you guys getting screwed by poor representation. I've had many friends enter the US to work and start businesses with little undue stress. [0]: http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-working-in-germany/visa/#citizens-of-other-states http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-workin... [1]: http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=1954&idartlang=2136&idcat=145&changelang=5 http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=195... [2]: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green-card-through-investment http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa

nitai 13y ago
Thank you for your comment. As a fact I know 10+ US citizens that have had no problem coming to Germany and live and work. All self employed and sufficient to provide for themselves for some time. It might have changed, but the last time I've checked it was way easier then getting any Visa in the USA. Speaking off, yes, we tried to get a B* visa but the 67000 visa they issue per year was filled within 3 days. One can apply again in June/July (not exactly sure).

wh0car3s 13y ago

I'll echo mattlutze and say that the EB visas are a great track to come here in the US. Also, I'm a foreigner with a non-immigrant visa, but that didn't stop me from incorporating and I know that if I hire someone or did business in another state I'll have to register or incorporate in that state (I got that by my own research, if that wasn't given to you then you received bad counsel). Not anyone can just come to Europe and just live there, In the countries you mentioned, I'll need a job offer before I can even start the process to get a work visa (I can't even visit Europe without a Schengen visa).

nitai 13y ago
> I can't even visit Europe without a Schengen visa Where are you from? US citizens can freely come to Europe without the need for any Visa. You can even freely travel within the Schengen area without showing your passport once.
- bpaluzzi 13y ago
  They can come to Europe, but they cannot work.
- wh0car3s 13y ago
  Not a US citizen (yet) - I'm a long way from getting it, considering that I'm just in the process of getting a green card; But to answer your question, I'm from the Philippines..