3 ms·

Filling out "a form" is not the issue outlined. Filling in "hundred of forms', taking up to 6 months and not being able to pay employees is. Furthermore, Razun

by nitai 13y ago

Filling out "a form" is not the issue outlined. Filling in "hundred of forms', taking up to 6 months and not being able to pay employees is. Furthermore, Razuna is successful. All we wanted is to continue on US soil and expanding by hiring US people and thus paying US taxes = bringing money to the US. That's what the blog post is all about. It has been written to show what it takes to incorporate for a European company.

mattlutze 13y ago
If I may, it sounds like the hurdles encountered were: - Paperwork and fees/taxes in each state an employee works in. - Securing a work visa to enter and work in the US. But, it sounds like, if we were to swap places and Nitai lived in the US, trying to start a business in Europe, he'd be faced with - Paperwork and fees/taxes paid to each country his employees worked. - Securing a work visa to enter and work in the EU. Depending on the country American Nitai wanted to live/work in, the visa may be easier/harder than the US visa, I'd imagine. But I'm not sure that the kinds of difficulties would be much different. You're putting up a lot of strawmen here. Example: "He will pay his taxes in Denmark, Germany, Switzerland or wherever he freely chooses to live. In Europe, you can live in whichever country you like. Most countries here seem happy to receive taxes." In the US, you can freely live in whichever state you want. It's rhetorically dishonest to compare the United States to a single country in the EU. -- I'm sorry that your experience was a poor one. Indeed, US laws are different, and if you went into the experience expecting it not to be different, that would certainly have been a shock. I make no claim our system is better than Denmark's (you shouldn't imply all of the EU is the same as Denmark, by the way). But it's a disingenuous platform to decry the US because you received inadequate counsel on setting up a US business or failed in your due diligence... I'm sure, however, the pro-European camp of your readership will feel quite satisfied with the tone and subject matter of your post.
- nitai 13y ago
  This is NOT about PRO-Europe or PRO-USA. It is about how difficult the current government makes it to come to the US, build business and live there (as a European). I personally know one CEO who runs a 80 Mil./year company in the USA, has 250 employees (3/4 are US citizens) but only received a green card or allowance to stay longer then one year in the USA 10 years into the business. That said, you can't compare the USA with the European immigration laws. As an example, there are many Americans living in Berlin. The way you can live in Berlin is by flying to Berlin and show up at the immigration within a week and tell them that you want to move here, pay taxes and work. It is even easier if you already have an employment. Additionally, there is something like a "Language" & "Artist" visa in Germany. Under these visa's you can simply stay and live here. You can even build businesses and start employing people. That's Germany. Want to live in Denmark? Same there. Want to open a business and live in Switzerland. Go register yourself and work. Right, you cannot vote and don't have a nice "credit" but at least you are given the chance to build something. Now, if there would be a startup-visa in the USA, I'm sure there would be many willing to move and try to build a business in the USA. But as it is now, you can't. I'm not taking way jobs from any US citizen, quite the contrary, we are hiring people and try to contribute to the US system.
  - bpaluzzi 13y ago
    Sorry, but your assertion that an American can simply come to Europe and work is false. In Germany, like in the UK, you most definitely CANNOT just come over and declare your intention to work. "If you are coming to work in general employment (that is, a job that does not require you to be highly skilled or highly educated), you will need to apply for a residence permit for the purpose of general employment, and you will only be eligible if the position cannot be filled by a worker from the EU/EEA or Switzerland." (from http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/getting-a-work-permit-in-germany-29022.html http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/g...). It's the same in the UK. Germany _does_ have the "Blue Card", which is similar (at least at the very highest level) to the now discontinued Highly Skilled Migrant Worker / Tier 1 visa in the UK. The Blue Card allows you to work in Germany as long as you have a college degree and make above a certain salary (usually above €45000). Both of those scenarios are much more involved than the way you described, it however.
    - nitai 13y ago
      As a company owner, wanting to open an office, deploy people and live in the chosen country, is much much easier in Europe then in the US. Just about every country welcomes you and even offers help in the form of some sort of fund or start-up program.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - bpaluzzi 13y ago
        Again, that's simply not true. A US employee trying to work in the EU will have just as difficult of a time as vice versa. Please look at the examples I and others have posted.
  - mattlutze 13y ago
    You cannot work on a Language visa in Germany[0], and artists in Berlin are special as the country wants to promote it as an art capital of Europe[1]. In almost every case, a non-EU/Schengen citizen needs to show ability to support him/herself when moving to Germany; that person must already have a job offer, which must pay at least 37(STEM) or 47,500 (others) EUR[0]. Non-EU folks in Germany as well, for example, don't get the equivalent of a "green card" out the gate either. Looks like it's 5 years in Germany, which happens to be the same for the United States. As a manager/executive with your company, I'm surprised there weren't EB-1 Visas available, which is exactly the tool meant to support the case you were looking at. Or EB-5 visas, because interestingly, there actually is a Visa (and Green Card track) for entrepreneurs in the US [2][3]. US immigration policies are indeed crazy sometimes. Your friend probably moved to the US around/not long after 2001, I'll bet? Everything ground to a half around then as DHS was getting set up. But if you're listing all of these failings and I'm finding the opposite to be true with 20 minutes of Googling at a time, I'm suspect of the quality of support you got from your lawyers. Again, I feel a great deal of empathy for what sounds like you guys getting screwed by poor representation. I've had many friends enter the US to work and start businesses with little undue stress. [0]: http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-working-in-germany/visa/#citizens-of-other-states http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-workin... [1]: http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=1954&idartlang=2136&idcat=145&changelang=5 http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=195... [2]: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green-card-through-investment http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa

by nitai 13y ago

mattlutze 13y ago

If I may, it sounds like the hurdles encountered were: - Paperwork and fees/taxes in each state an employee works in. - Securing a work visa to enter and work in the US. But, it sounds like, if we were to swap places and Nitai lived in the US, trying to start a business in Europe, he'd be faced with - Paperwork and fees/taxes paid to each country his employees worked. - Securing a work visa to enter and work in the EU. Depending on the country American Nitai wanted to live/work in, the visa may be easier/harder than the US visa, I'd imagine. But I'm not sure that the kinds of difficulties would be much different. You're putting up a lot of strawmen here. Example: "He will pay his taxes in Denmark, Germany, Switzerland or wherever he freely chooses to live. In Europe, you can live in whichever country you like. Most countries here seem happy to receive taxes." In the US, you can freely live in whichever state you want. It's rhetorically dishonest to compare the United States to a single country in the EU. -- I'm sorry that your experience was a poor one. Indeed, US laws are different, and if you went into the experience expecting it not to be different, that would certainly have been a shock. I make no claim our system is better than Denmark's (you shouldn't imply all of the EU is the same as Denmark, by the way). But it's a disingenuous platform to decry the US because you received inadequate counsel on setting up a US business or failed in your due diligence... I'm sure, however, the pro-European camp of your readership will feel quite satisfied with the tone and subject matter of your post.

nitai 13y ago
This is NOT about PRO-Europe or PRO-USA. It is about how difficult the current government makes it to come to the US, build business and live there (as a European). I personally know one CEO who runs a 80 Mil./year company in the USA, has 250 employees (3/4 are US citizens) but only received a green card or allowance to stay longer then one year in the USA 10 years into the business. That said, you can't compare the USA with the European immigration laws. As an example, there are many Americans living in Berlin. The way you can live in Berlin is by flying to Berlin and show up at the immigration within a week and tell them that you want to move here, pay taxes and work. It is even easier if you already have an employment. Additionally, there is something like a "Language" & "Artist" visa in Germany. Under these visa's you can simply stay and live here. You can even build businesses and start employing people. That's Germany. Want to live in Denmark? Same there. Want to open a business and live in Switzerland. Go register yourself and work. Right, you cannot vote and don't have a nice "credit" but at least you are given the chance to build something. Now, if there would be a startup-visa in the USA, I'm sure there would be many willing to move and try to build a business in the USA. But as it is now, you can't. I'm not taking way jobs from any US citizen, quite the contrary, we are hiring people and try to contribute to the US system.
- bpaluzzi 13y ago
  Sorry, but your assertion that an American can simply come to Europe and work is false. In Germany, like in the UK, you most definitely CANNOT just come over and declare your intention to work. "If you are coming to work in general employment (that is, a job that does not require you to be highly skilled or highly educated), you will need to apply for a residence permit for the purpose of general employment, and you will only be eligible if the position cannot be filled by a worker from the EU/EEA or Switzerland." (from http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/getting-a-work-permit-in-germany-29022.html http://www.expatica.com/de/essentials_moving_to/essentials/g...). It's the same in the UK. Germany _does_ have the "Blue Card", which is similar (at least at the very highest level) to the now discontinued Highly Skilled Migrant Worker / Tier 1 visa in the UK. The Blue Card allows you to work in Germany as long as you have a college degree and make above a certain salary (usually above €45000). Both of those scenarios are much more involved than the way you described, it however.
  - nitai 13y ago
    As a company owner, wanting to open an office, deploy people and live in the chosen country, is much much easier in Europe then in the US. Just about every country welcomes you and even offers help in the form of some sort of fund or start-up program.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - bpaluzzi 13y ago
      Again, that's simply not true. A US employee trying to work in the EU will have just as difficult of a time as vice versa. Please look at the examples I and others have posted.
- mattlutze 13y ago
  You cannot work on a Language visa in Germany[0], and artists in Berlin are special as the country wants to promote it as an art capital of Europe[1]. In almost every case, a non-EU/Schengen citizen needs to show ability to support him/herself when moving to Germany; that person must already have a job offer, which must pay at least 37(STEM) or 47,500 (others) EUR[0]. Non-EU folks in Germany as well, for example, don't get the equivalent of a "green card" out the gate either. Looks like it's 5 years in Germany, which happens to be the same for the United States. As a manager/executive with your company, I'm surprised there weren't EB-1 Visas available, which is exactly the tool meant to support the case you were looking at. Or EB-5 visas, because interestingly, there actually is a Visa (and Green Card track) for entrepreneurs in the US [2][3]. US immigration policies are indeed crazy sometimes. Your friend probably moved to the US around/not long after 2001, I'll bet? Everything ground to a half around then as DHS was getting set up. But if you're listing all of these failings and I'm finding the opposite to be true with 20 minutes of Googling at a time, I'm suspect of the quality of support you got from your lawyers. Again, I feel a great deal of empathy for what sounds like you guys getting screwed by poor representation. I've had many friends enter the US to work and start businesses with little undue stress. [0]: http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-working-in-germany/visa/#citizens-of-other-states http://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/working/guide-to-workin... [1]: http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=1954&idartlang=2136&idcat=145&changelang=5 http://www.bbk-berlin.de/con/bbk/front_content.php?idart=195... [2]: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green-card-through-investment http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/green... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa