4 ms·

Exactly, one of the (major or even only?) reason to be in the US.

by nitai 13y ago

iamwithnail 13y ago
Maybe. Although there are some (very good) VCs and investors in Europe, especially in London. But it's often overlooked that actually, maybe you don't need a VC/Angel to run/setup your company. It mostly increases your risk, and I concur with Swombat's views on this: http://swombat.com/2013/12/27/investment-increases-risk http://swombat.com/2013/12/27/investment-increases-risk So given that you can (and people do) get serious cash outside the US, and everything you've said, Nitai, I'd be pushed to even think about the US as a venue for my next project, even if that was where the market was.
mattlutze 13y ago
Labor also moves relatively freely in the US. Here in Germany, I get the impression that an employee is incredibly "safe" compared to the US -- is it the same elsewhere in the EU? This has the double effect of probably making any one community more resilient to small market movements, but I have a hunch it also suppresses the volume of desirable candidates in the unemployment pool. I'd wager that a robust, high-turnover unemployment pool (i.e. one where desirable folks end up for short periods of time that is always churning) is a boon for a new company that needs highly desirable employees in its mix.
- Florin_Andrei 13y ago
  > Labor also moves relatively freely in the US. Well, this is interesting. It is true that it's much easier to get fired in the US. It is also true that social mobility is less, compared to many other rich countries. Easier to get fired + less social mobility = yay, freedom.
  - nir 13y ago
    >It is also true that social mobility is less, compared to many other rich countries. Source?
- thesz 13y ago
  You cannot get highly desirable employers from unemployment pool. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html
- apa-sl 13y ago
  In Poland when you want to hire someone "as it should be" with a proper work contract it is quite a pain in the ass for the employer. 1) Many rights for the empolyee, not so many for the employer, 2) VERY high real costs of employment (only ~40% of total employment costs lands in the hands of the employee to his/her disposal). That's why many companies are using some "alternative" ways to hire someone still legally with much lower costs (10-25% employer costs including the salary) and more balanced rights for both sides of the contract.
  - kybernetyk 13y ago
    To compare: That alternative way is verboten in Germany. If the Finanzamt finds out you will have to repay social taxes on your "contractor" and he will have the right to sue you to employ him properly. AFAIK in Poland social security payments are mandatory for self employed people so it's no real difference if you are employed or a subcontractor - you still have health insurance, pay into pension funds, etc. In Germany on the other hand only health insurance is mandatory for self employed people. So being a "subcontractor" with only one customer is treated like cheating the social net out of money. (Because even people who won't pay into the social net are protected by it if stuff gets serious). Oh, btw. a question about the Polish tax system: I read that Poland has the option to opt into a 19% flat personal income tax. Is this of any practical use? My Polish is not up to reading legal texts so I couldn't find out what the drawbacks of this option would be.
  - xyzzyz 13y ago
    I highly recommend comparing these numbers for Poland with numbers for other European countries. You'll find that Poland is on the cheaper end of the employment cost spectrum - that 40% figure (which is actually 38%) only refers to the cost of employing a minimum-wage worker, and it's not 38% that's taken home, it's 38% that's taken by government, and it's still lower than EU average. As personal and corporate income taxes in Poland are quite low (again, compared to other European countries), combined with the fact that labor in Poland is extremely cheap (in EU, if I remember correctly, the labor is cheaper only in very poor countries like Latvia, Lithuania or Bulgaria), employing Poles and doing business in Poland is very cheap. It's very illuminating to compare the percentage of corporate income spent on worker wages in various countries -- companies spend very little on employees in Poland in general.
baddox 13y ago
What about the geography? Obviously, it's subjective, and I wouldn't claim that the USA has the best geography in the world, but it's pretty freaking varied and awesome if you like the outdoors.

Exactly, one of the (major or even only?) reason to be in the US.

by nitai 13y ago

Exactly, one of the (major or even only?) reason to be in the US.

Maybe. Although there are some (very good) VCs and investors in Europe, especially in London. But it's often overlooked that actually, maybe you don't need a VC/Angel to run/setup your company. It mostly increases your risk, and I concur with Swombat's views on this: http://swombat.com/2013/12/27/investment-increases-risk http://swombat.com/2013/12/27/investment-increases-risk So given that you can (and people do) get serious cash outside the US, and everything you've said, Nitai, I'd be pushed to even think about the US as a venue for my next project, even if that was where the market was.

mattlutze 13y ago

Labor also moves relatively freely in the US. Here in Germany, I get the impression that an employee is incredibly "safe" compared to the US -- is it the same elsewhere in the EU? This has the double effect of probably making any one community more resilient to small market movements, but I have a hunch it also suppresses the volume of desirable candidates in the unemployment pool. I'd wager that a robust, high-turnover unemployment pool (i.e. one where desirable folks end up for short periods of time that is always churning) is a boon for a new company that needs highly desirable employees in its mix.

Florin_Andrei 13y ago
> Labor also moves relatively freely in the US. Well, this is interesting. It is true that it's much easier to get fired in the US. It is also true that social mobility is less, compared to many other rich countries. Easier to get fired + less social mobility = yay, freedom.
- nir 13y ago
  >It is also true that social mobility is less, compared to many other rich countries. Source?
thesz 13y ago
You cannot get highly desirable employers from unemployment pool. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html
apa-sl 13y ago
In Poland when you want to hire someone "as it should be" with a proper work contract it is quite a pain in the ass for the employer. 1) Many rights for the empolyee, not so many for the employer, 2) VERY high real costs of employment (only ~40% of total employment costs lands in the hands of the employee to his/her disposal). That's why many companies are using some "alternative" ways to hire someone still legally with much lower costs (10-25% employer costs including the salary) and more balanced rights for both sides of the contract.
- kybernetyk 13y ago
  To compare: That alternative way is verboten in Germany. If the Finanzamt finds out you will have to repay social taxes on your "contractor" and he will have the right to sue you to employ him properly. AFAIK in Poland social security payments are mandatory for self employed people so it's no real difference if you are employed or a subcontractor - you still have health insurance, pay into pension funds, etc. In Germany on the other hand only health insurance is mandatory for self employed people. So being a "subcontractor" with only one customer is treated like cheating the social net out of money. (Because even people who won't pay into the social net are protected by it if stuff gets serious). Oh, btw. a question about the Polish tax system: I read that Poland has the option to opt into a 19% flat personal income tax. Is this of any practical use? My Polish is not up to reading legal texts so I couldn't find out what the drawbacks of this option would be.
- xyzzyz 13y ago
  I highly recommend comparing these numbers for Poland with numbers for other European countries. You'll find that Poland is on the cheaper end of the employment cost spectrum - that 40% figure (which is actually 38%) only refers to the cost of employing a minimum-wage worker, and it's not 38% that's taken home, it's 38% that's taken by government, and it's still lower than EU average. As personal and corporate income taxes in Poland are quite low (again, compared to other European countries), combined with the fact that labor in Poland is extremely cheap (in EU, if I remember correctly, the labor is cheaper only in very poor countries like Latvia, Lithuania or Bulgaria), employing Poles and doing business in Poland is very cheap. It's very illuminating to compare the percentage of corporate income spent on worker wages in various countries -- companies spend very little on employees in Poland in general.

baddox 13y ago

What about the geography? Obviously, it's subjective, and I wouldn't claim that the USA has the best geography in the world, but it's pretty freaking varied and awesome if you like the outdoors.