6 ms·

Support an open source animation feature film made with Blender

174 points by hendi_ 13y ago

AnotherDesigner 13y ago
These open movies are great technical demos for Blender but I haven't been impressed with the writing. The stories have been flat, emotionless, poorly paced and lacking in any kind of mass appeal. I'd love to see Blender put out a movie with the depth and complexity of a Pixar film using open-source software. They need a message and a story, something brave and ambitious. So far, it seems like the stories have been written to demo features they're working on. It's really a waste of the amazing talent they have working on these films and the abilities of this software to be used for storytelling.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- frozenport 13y ago
  I don't think the OSS model works for creative works, if everybody can agree on the vision, one would expect it to be bland.
  - arjie 13y ago
    The scripts for these Blender works are usually not designed by committee.
  - doesnt_know 13y ago
    I don't think that has anything to do with the "OSS model". The management/leadership dynamic of FOSS projects can differ from one another just as much as closed projects do.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    Lot's of open source projects have very hierarchical or "traditional" structures and management.
- shankysingh 13y ago
  Although little cliched, "Sintel"'s story had great depth and pull. In any case writing good story is hard, their is a reason their is only one "Pixar" .
- wazoox 13y ago
  I disagree, Caminando was excellent.
  - edwintorok 13y ago
    Where can I find more info about 'Caminando'?
    - shankysingh 13y ago
      Caminandes Episode One : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY Episode Two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU
      - dublinben 13y ago
        Those are really good. Thanks for sharing them. I think comedy shorts are a very smart focus.
- melling 13y ago
  There is some discussion about the importance of story on the latest edition of Blender Guru. http://www.blenderguru.com/podcast-beorn-leonard-working-on-sintel-and-the-lego-movie/ http://www.blenderguru.com/podcast-beorn-leonard-working-on-... It's a good interview with Beorn Leonard, one of the animators on Sintel, and most recently the Lego movie.
- dsaravel 13y ago
  I have no knowledge of how this works so I have to ask. How hard would it be to pitch it to a major Hollywood studio?
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    Impossibly hard.
  - shankysingh 13y ago
    Well, I am assuming its going to be really really hard to ask someone to part with 6 million Euros for a project that outsider-to-a-industry wants to do, on promise of "maybe" some benefit at end of 2 years :)
- MrScruff 13y ago
  To make a Pixar quality film would require a bunch of different world class skillsets. In addition to animators, modellers, riggers, lighters, lookdev artists, fx artists and compositors you'd need writers, editors, sound designers, voice actors etc. In addition to all that you'd need some sort of top down project management structure. If the people who are directing/supervising the project decide one of the sequences that a bunch of people have worked on for 6 months isn't working, they need to be able to make the decision to abandon the work without causing massive animosity and have people quit the project.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    Which is sort of the purpose of the current structure. The studios are under contract and receive funding... I would also imagine "on budget" will trump most quality or artistic issues in this project...
- magpi3 13y ago
  Why not just use a piece (an old play for example) that is already in the commons? Or they could request permission from a short story writer that would probably love the exposure. There is no reason to try to be completely original. There are plenty of great stories out there.
- michaelbuddy 13y ago
  You have a strange perception of all this. You haven't enjoyed the films, so they are a waste of talent. As if these people weren't bogged down working for blender movies, they'd have jobs at Pixar. These people apply to get on the project and they are hand picked crews. They in some cases get to live on the "campus" and work on the film. Everybody benefits, the film is released for free in dozens of file formats / resolutions. the residual benefits are big, the educational benefits are obvious. Some of the crew have gone on to bigger paid work including pixar and the lego movie, and that's just the popular recent ones. Others create their own companies, others work more on blender and do what they want. To say it's a waste of talent is very strange way of looking at this.
gregschlom 13y ago
This looks gorgeous! I've started learning Blender recently. I had some previous experience with 3ds max and was afraid of the learning curve, but I must say I really like Blender so far. After I picked up the shortcuts and configured it to work properly with my MacBook Pro's trackpad, it's a really pleasant experience. So if like me you're considering whether to give Blender a try... go for it, don't be afraid of what people say about the learning curve. It's worth it!
- lalos 13y ago
  If rendering is taking a while be sure to check if people still release optimized Blender builds for OS X. I used Blender 5 years ago and I remember the optimized builds where worth it.
  - gregschlom 13y ago
    Thanks for the tip! I'm using Blender to create artwork for a 3d game, so rendering isn't too much of an issue for me, but will definitely check this out. A quick Google search did turn out a bunch of alternative builds for OS X.
- exDM69 13y ago
  > I've started learning Blender recently. I had some previous experience with 3ds max and was afraid of the learning curve, but I must say I really like Blender so far. Blender has had a not-quite-earned bad reputation in the past for not being very user friendly. After the big UI redesign (which changed how it works, not only how it looks) that was started in Blender 2.5 and has now matured, I find Blender to be quite easy to work. I have used Blender since the 1.x days when it still was a closed source product developed by the NaN company that went bankrupt. Back then it certainly wasn't easy to use, you had to know which keys to press and they were quite poorly documented. Thankfully the tutorials were good and Blender became popular enough that the source code was eventually bought and open sourced.
  - thangalin 13y ago
    A short pre-2.5 video of mine (2007): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvQbYXPmqiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvQbYXPmqiA A post-2.5 video of mine (2011): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM0JMaM_tdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM0JMaM_tdQ
bayesianhorse 13y ago
I'm looking forward to improvements in video editing. Blender is already a very good solution for video post-production but it could be better.
- nathos 13y ago
  Lightworks seems promising, and they announced they would be going open-source over 3 years ago. Sadly, it still hasn't happened. Last I heard, they said it would happen after a Mac version is released, but it's hard to find more info. http://www.lwks.com http://www.lwks.com
huskyr 13y ago
I think this is really awesome and just donated. Some tips that might help to get even more supporters: * There should really be some kind of 'Tweet this' or 'Facebook this' link at the end of the payment process. * It's not very visible that you don't need to enter your home address at the registration page. * The 'Bronze', 'Silver' and 'Gold' sponsor pledges are only visible at the donation page, not on the main site. * The homepage could explain better why you're writing 'film history' by donating. The headline is 'Support an open source animation feature film'. That sounds a bit tame. Why not use a headline like 'Be part of the world's first feature-length open source animated movie?' * Tell us more about the movie. How many minutes will it run? Who are the main characters? Who will voice the characters?
- eterm 13y ago
  It wasn't until I got to the bottom that I realised that they were after money rather than artists donating their time, i think that needs to be more clear from the start.
- httpteapot 13y ago
  * Bitcoin donations
  - s_tec 13y ago
    Bitcoin pledges would be great, but that option isn't available. They only have PayPal and wire transfer, with credit cards coming "in a few days".
zanny 13y ago
Aw man, no bitcoin donor link. I would have thrown some money at this if I didn't have to go through wonky fiat transaction sites I don't use. 500k Euros is absurdly low for an animated film. I'm worried that by not using a popular crowdfunding service they won't have the visibility or at least retention to reach their goal. I do think this is the future of film - no, information - creation in general. It is just missing investors insurance in case the project fails to get mass market appeal. But it lets us just toss that outdated corrupting copyright regime we have right now.
- bhouston 13y ago
  Blender is an established and well known and loved product with really decent PR mechanisms so they don't need the visibility one gets on Kickstarter generally, although Kickstarter's fees are relatively low so it probably won't have hurt much.
  - zanny 13y ago
    It isn't really about availability, I'd attribute it more to laziness - once you donate to one project on Kickstarter it is painfully easy to repeat on another half dozen. Having to go through payment forms here might turn a huge portion of potential donors off.
- microcolonel 13y ago
  There will be Bitcoin soon apparently, according to Ton's Twitter.
- shankysingh 13y ago
  500k Euros is a low amount but they have already raised money from 3 other investors: [1] European Union [2] Creative Industries Fund NL [3] BDO Accountants src: http://gooseberry.blender.org/sponsor/ http://gooseberry.blender.org/sponsor/
knowuh 13y ago
I love blender, but I don't think Ton's rationale for not using kickstarter is compelling. Although blender.org gets some page-views, it's the same audience of people who already know about blender. Kickstarter would have introduced a new demographic, and provided more traffic to the blender.org page. Blender is an awesome project, with serious momentum, but I am worry sometimes about Ton's hubris.
jordigh 13y ago
Heads up, bitcoiners: next week you can also pay with bitcoins: https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/443231580778004480 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/443231580778004480
- guyht 13y ago
  I came here to ask this exact question. Bitcoins will be on their way next week.
philjohn 13y ago
Any idea about voice talent casting? Those of us with acting skills, but not 3d modelling skills, would like to get involved too.
matt_heimer 13y ago
The Secret Life of Walter Mitty but with a sheep! Looks cool though.
cordite 13y ago
After all the hype, I was pretty disappointed in Sintel. It felt more like a tech demo. I hope this changes.
- shankysingh 13y ago
  Hey @cordite Do check out their latest work, like Caminandes, It might just change your opinion :) Caminandes Episode One : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY Episode Two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU

174 points by hendi_ 13y ago

These open movies are great technical demos for Blender but I haven't been impressed with the writing. The stories have been flat, emotionless, poorly paced and lacking in any kind of mass appeal. I'd love to see Blender put out a movie with the depth and complexity of a Pixar film using open-source software. They need a message and a story, something brave and ambitious. So far, it seems like the stories have been written to demo features they're working on. It's really a waste of the amazing talent they have working on these films and the abilities of this software to be used for storytelling.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
frozenport 13y ago
I don't think the OSS model works for creative works, if everybody can agree on the vision, one would expect it to be bland.
- arjie 13y ago
  The scripts for these Blender works are usually not designed by committee.
- doesnt_know 13y ago
  I don't think that has anything to do with the "OSS model". The management/leadership dynamic of FOSS projects can differ from one another just as much as closed projects do.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  Lot's of open source projects have very hierarchical or "traditional" structures and management.
shankysingh 13y ago
Although little cliched, "Sintel"'s story had great depth and pull. In any case writing good story is hard, their is a reason their is only one "Pixar" .
wazoox 13y ago
I disagree, Caminando was excellent.
- edwintorok 13y ago
  Where can I find more info about 'Caminando'?
  - shankysingh 13y ago
    Caminandes Episode One : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY Episode Two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU
    - dublinben 13y ago
      Those are really good. Thanks for sharing them. I think comedy shorts are a very smart focus.
melling 13y ago
There is some discussion about the importance of story on the latest edition of Blender Guru. http://www.blenderguru.com/podcast-beorn-leonard-working-on-sintel-and-the-lego-movie/ http://www.blenderguru.com/podcast-beorn-leonard-working-on-... It's a good interview with Beorn Leonard, one of the animators on Sintel, and most recently the Lego movie.
dsaravel 13y ago
I have no knowledge of how this works so I have to ask. How hard would it be to pitch it to a major Hollywood studio?
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  Impossibly hard.
- shankysingh 13y ago
  Well, I am assuming its going to be really really hard to ask someone to part with 6 million Euros for a project that outsider-to-a-industry wants to do, on promise of "maybe" some benefit at end of 2 years :)
MrScruff 13y ago
To make a Pixar quality film would require a bunch of different world class skillsets. In addition to animators, modellers, riggers, lighters, lookdev artists, fx artists and compositors you'd need writers, editors, sound designers, voice actors etc. In addition to all that you'd need some sort of top down project management structure. If the people who are directing/supervising the project decide one of the sequences that a bunch of people have worked on for 6 months isn't working, they need to be able to make the decision to abandon the work without causing massive animosity and have people quit the project.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  Which is sort of the purpose of the current structure. The studios are under contract and receive funding... I would also imagine "on budget" will trump most quality or artistic issues in this project...
magpi3 13y ago
Why not just use a piece (an old play for example) that is already in the commons? Or they could request permission from a short story writer that would probably love the exposure. There is no reason to try to be completely original. There are plenty of great stories out there.
michaelbuddy 13y ago
You have a strange perception of all this. You haven't enjoyed the films, so they are a waste of talent. As if these people weren't bogged down working for blender movies, they'd have jobs at Pixar. These people apply to get on the project and they are hand picked crews. They in some cases get to live on the "campus" and work on the film. Everybody benefits, the film is released for free in dozens of file formats / resolutions. the residual benefits are big, the educational benefits are obvious. Some of the crew have gone on to bigger paid work including pixar and the lego movie, and that's just the popular recent ones. Others create their own companies, others work more on blender and do what they want. To say it's a waste of talent is very strange way of looking at this.

gregschlom 13y ago

This looks gorgeous! I've started learning Blender recently. I had some previous experience with 3ds max and was afraid of the learning curve, but I must say I really like Blender so far. After I picked up the shortcuts and configured it to work properly with my MacBook Pro's trackpad, it's a really pleasant experience. So if like me you're considering whether to give Blender a try... go for it, don't be afraid of what people say about the learning curve. It's worth it!

lalos 13y ago
If rendering is taking a while be sure to check if people still release optimized Blender builds for OS X. I used Blender 5 years ago and I remember the optimized builds where worth it.
- gregschlom 13y ago
  Thanks for the tip! I'm using Blender to create artwork for a 3d game, so rendering isn't too much of an issue for me, but will definitely check this out. A quick Google search did turn out a bunch of alternative builds for OS X.
exDM69 13y ago
> I've started learning Blender recently. I had some previous experience with 3ds max and was afraid of the learning curve, but I must say I really like Blender so far. Blender has had a not-quite-earned bad reputation in the past for not being very user friendly. After the big UI redesign (which changed how it works, not only how it looks) that was started in Blender 2.5 and has now matured, I find Blender to be quite easy to work. I have used Blender since the 1.x days when it still was a closed source product developed by the NaN company that went bankrupt. Back then it certainly wasn't easy to use, you had to know which keys to press and they were quite poorly documented. Thankfully the tutorials were good and Blender became popular enough that the source code was eventually bought and open sourced.
- thangalin 13y ago
  A short pre-2.5 video of mine (2007): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvQbYXPmqiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvQbYXPmqiA A post-2.5 video of mine (2011): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM0JMaM_tdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM0JMaM_tdQ

bayesianhorse 13y ago

I'm looking forward to improvements in video editing. Blender is already a very good solution for video post-production but it could be better.

nathos 13y ago
Lightworks seems promising, and they announced they would be going open-source over 3 years ago. Sadly, it still hasn't happened. Last I heard, they said it would happen after a Mac version is released, but it's hard to find more info. http://www.lwks.com http://www.lwks.com

huskyr 13y ago

I think this is really awesome and just donated. Some tips that might help to get even more supporters: * There should really be some kind of 'Tweet this' or 'Facebook this' link at the end of the payment process. * It's not very visible that you don't need to enter your home address at the registration page. * The 'Bronze', 'Silver' and 'Gold' sponsor pledges are only visible at the donation page, not on the main site. * The homepage could explain better why you're writing 'film history' by donating. The headline is 'Support an open source animation feature film'. That sounds a bit tame. Why not use a headline like 'Be part of the world's first feature-length open source animated movie?' * Tell us more about the movie. How many minutes will it run? Who are the main characters? Who will voice the characters?

eterm 13y ago
It wasn't until I got to the bottom that I realised that they were after money rather than artists donating their time, i think that needs to be more clear from the start.
httpteapot 13y ago
* Bitcoin donations
- s_tec 13y ago
  Bitcoin pledges would be great, but that option isn't available. They only have PayPal and wire transfer, with credit cards coming "in a few days".

zanny 13y ago

Aw man, no bitcoin donor link. I would have thrown some money at this if I didn't have to go through wonky fiat transaction sites I don't use. 500k Euros is absurdly low for an animated film. I'm worried that by not using a popular crowdfunding service they won't have the visibility or at least retention to reach their goal. I do think this is the future of film - no, information - creation in general. It is just missing investors insurance in case the project fails to get mass market appeal. But it lets us just toss that outdated corrupting copyright regime we have right now.

bhouston 13y ago
Blender is an established and well known and loved product with really decent PR mechanisms so they don't need the visibility one gets on Kickstarter generally, although Kickstarter's fees are relatively low so it probably won't have hurt much.
- zanny 13y ago
  It isn't really about availability, I'd attribute it more to laziness - once you donate to one project on Kickstarter it is painfully easy to repeat on another half dozen. Having to go through payment forms here might turn a huge portion of potential donors off.
microcolonel 13y ago
There will be Bitcoin soon apparently, according to Ton's Twitter.
shankysingh 13y ago
500k Euros is a low amount but they have already raised money from 3 other investors: [1] European Union [2] Creative Industries Fund NL [3] BDO Accountants src: http://gooseberry.blender.org/sponsor/ http://gooseberry.blender.org/sponsor/

knowuh 13y ago

I love blender, but I don't think Ton's rationale for not using kickstarter is compelling. Although blender.org gets some page-views, it's the same audience of people who already know about blender. Kickstarter would have introduced a new demographic, and provided more traffic to the blender.org page. Blender is an awesome project, with serious momentum, but I am worry sometimes about Ton's hubris.

jordigh 13y ago

Heads up, bitcoiners: next week you can also pay with bitcoins: https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/443231580778004480 https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/443231580778004480

guyht 13y ago
I came here to ask this exact question. Bitcoins will be on their way next week.

philjohn 13y ago

Any idea about voice talent casting? Those of us with acting skills, but not 3d modelling skills, would like to get involved too.

matt_heimer 13y ago

The Secret Life of Walter Mitty but with a sheep! Looks cool though.

cordite 13y ago

After all the hype, I was pretty disappointed in Sintel. It felt more like a tech demo. I hope this changes.

shankysingh 13y ago
Hey @cordite Do check out their latest work, like Caminandes, It might just change your opinion :) Caminandes Episode One : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOhiWY7XmoY Episode Two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4C82eyhwgU