4 ms·

This is supremely cool. Tangential stupid question: Obviously there's been a ton of buzz lately (and innovation) in the drone space. What's the big technolog

by nlh 13y ago

This is supremely cool. Tangential stupid question: Obviously there's been a ton of buzz lately (and innovation) in the drone space. What's the big technological driver that's allowed / caused this to happen? I don't know the details of the internals but it seems that the tech has been around for a while (radio controlled planes, servos, helicopters, smallish cameras, etc.).

lmm 13y ago
The multi-rotor drones are basically uncontrollable without computers; you need a reasonably powerful processor, which in turn means a fairly high-capacity battery. I think a lot of the innovation has come from mobile phone tech; there's now a lot more demand for small, light, high-performance processors, batteries and cameras, and so while much of the tech is not really new it's a lot more available to hobbyists than it was a few years ago.
- cscheid 13y ago
  The set of (say) 4 motors consumes much more power than the on-board computers. Brushless controllers these days handle 20 amps at around 5 volts for a total wattage of 400W(!) . The on-board computer power doesn't even count. Of course, you're right that powerful computers are needed. But it's more about miniaturization for weight purposes.
- fh973 13y ago
  Most fly with 8-bit Arduinos actually. Their power consumption is nil compared to the brushless motors.
- Florin_Andrei 13y ago
  > The multi-rotor drones are basically uncontrollable without computers; you need a reasonably powerful processor True. > which in turn means a fairly high-capacity battery. Not true. A microcontroller CPU is good enough. Take a look at the KK2.1 flight controller. https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__49254__Hobbyking_KK2_1_Multi_rotor_LCD_Flight_Control_Board_With_6050MPU_And_Atmel_644PA.html https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__49254__Hobbyking... Its brain is an ATmega644, which only requires 240µA @ 1.8V, 1MHz, according to the spec sheet. http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega644.aspx http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega644.aspx You do need energy-dense batteries, but all that energy goes into the rotors.
nine_k 13y ago
I'd say Lithium-ion batteries, cheap and power-efficient controllers, cheap sensors (orientation, acceleration, GPS), and the quad-copter layout. With them you can build a device which is lightweight enough to fly for tens of minutes, and can easily orient itself. This lets you control it with high-level commands. You can say "fly there, face north, stand still", something you can't usually say to a traditional helicopter.
- sopooneo 13y ago
  Exactly. Everything that the global smart-phone market pushed the prices down on.
- nlh 13y ago
  Great answer(s)! (To you and other repliers -- thanks everyone.) Makes sense. Not one single big thing (i.e. AWS for web companies), but a really great example of one industry benefitting and emerging because of cost improvements and advances in a different industry. I, for one, continue to be excited about our drone overlords.
uptown 13y ago
I think it's a combination of prices coming down for the quad-copters, cheap GoPro's providing HD video of the flights, and YouTube being available as a marketing platform to convince others to buy their own.
doctoboggan 13y ago
The cell phone industry has massively driven down the costs of the gyros and accelerometers needed to easily fly a quadcoptor. You also mentioned tiny cameras, another component that benefitted from the economies of scale of the cell phone manufacturers.. For example, you can buy a quadcoptor that fits int he palm of your hand for less than $40: http://www.amazon.com/Estes-4606-Proto-Quadcopter-Black/dp/B00G924W98 http://www.amazon.com/Estes-4606-Proto-Quadcopter-Black/dp/B...
- dronehire 13y ago
  This is correct. In addition to the plummeting cost of sensors, communities such as DIY Drones and OpenPilot have made enormous contributions to the accessibility of this technology, by developing open-source autopilots that rival the capabilities of very expensive proprietary products.
  - Shivetya 13y ago
    the day isn't that far off where robots get set off to do work either hazardous, monotonous, or even just require constant precision, with regards to vehicle operation. As I posted before and I got the book idea from another here, Red Mars has a great amount of imaginative use of robotic vehicles and manufacturing. Just like with this drone, besides eliminating some safety concerns we eventually will eliminate the other costly part, not having enough time to do all we want. With enough drones there won't be much we cannot do for time, just money will come up to the forefront.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Also the Robot series by Asimov, particularly Caves of Steel / The Naked Sun / The Robots of Dawn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_series_%28Asimov%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_series_%28Asimov%29
- baddox 13y ago
  By the way, that's the best toy quadcopter I've ever used (sample size of 4), and to say it fits in the palm of your hand is overstating its size. Three or four of them would easily fit in the palm of your hand, or the quadcopter and its tiny controller: http://cdn9.modelairplanenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ProtoX.jpg http://cdn9.modelairplanenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11...
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
I agree with other posters that it has been the culmination of several things. Batteries with high energy:weight. MEMS sensors (thanks, nuclear weapon stewardship programs) http://mems.sandia.gov/ http://mems.sandia.gov/ Cheap, open-ish, powerful SoC microprocessors, and the community of hackers (lots of help, and easy tools that lowered the learning curve). Development of better "linear" circuits like advanced brushless motor controllers and chargers. Growing robust hobbyist electronics tinkerer marketplace. Maybe cheap 3D printing too, making prototyping easier/faster/better/more fun.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
"What's the big technological driver that's allowed / caused this to happen?" As with most things, several things had to come together in order for this to happen. A probably incomplete list. 1) Lithium chemistry batteries - unlike Nickel, Cadmium, or Lead chemisty batteries, Lithium batteries are have a lower weight per watt-second than the others. 2) Micro-Electro-Mechanical-Systems (MEMS) - which is a technique for building a mechanical system (like a balance beam) using the same processes that create integrated circuits. This opened up developing accelerometers, gyroscopes, and magnetometers where the sensor and the conditioning circuit were all in the same silicon die. That hugely lowered the cost of such things, and has evolved to the point of providing 9 degree of freedom systems that are on one, or two inexpensive chips. 3 - Cheap 32 bit Micros - Emergence of inexpensive 32 bit microprocessors with DSP like features. The ARM Cortex M series in particular. Even with a cheap inertial sensor you need to process it fast enough and with enough precision to act. DSPs can do this but they are complex, difficult to program, and development tools are expensive. 32 bit ARM processors are easily engaged by high school students using off the shelf free tools. 4 - High performance MOSFETs (low Rds(on) resistance), cheap hall effect sensors - these allowed people to build brushless motors with atonishing power to weight ratios. From CD-ROM spindle motors putting out 1/2 HP for electric planes to 15W motors the size of pager motors which are quite light weight. Of course that all of this stuff is light weight gets the weight down to the point where you have enough power to lift it, and the integration gets the costs down to where you can build something on a small budget (a few hundred dollars, well within the budgets of active modelers)
- gcb0 13y ago
  isn't lithium more prone to failure on higher temps? also, i'd love to know what the propellers are made of. If it was me trying to film that close to a volcano, i'd simply use better lens :)
  - jonknee 13y ago
    The props are made of plastic (I have a similar unit as the person who made the video, I just don't live near a volcano). Coincidentally, I actually ordered a spare set today: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013324-REG/dji_part3_phanton_2_self_tightening_propeller.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013324-REG/dji_part3_...

by nlh 13y ago

lmm 13y ago

The multi-rotor drones are basically uncontrollable without computers; you need a reasonably powerful processor, which in turn means a fairly high-capacity battery. I think a lot of the innovation has come from mobile phone tech; there's now a lot more demand for small, light, high-performance processors, batteries and cameras, and so while much of the tech is not really new it's a lot more available to hobbyists than it was a few years ago.

cscheid 13y ago
The set of (say) 4 motors consumes much more power than the on-board computers. Brushless controllers these days handle 20 amps at around 5 volts for a total wattage of 400W(!) . The on-board computer power doesn't even count. Of course, you're right that powerful computers are needed. But it's more about miniaturization for weight purposes.
fh973 13y ago
Most fly with 8-bit Arduinos actually. Their power consumption is nil compared to the brushless motors.
Florin_Andrei 13y ago
> The multi-rotor drones are basically uncontrollable without computers; you need a reasonably powerful processor True. > which in turn means a fairly high-capacity battery. Not true. A microcontroller CPU is good enough. Take a look at the KK2.1 flight controller. https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__49254__Hobbyking_KK2_1_Multi_rotor_LCD_Flight_Control_Board_With_6050MPU_And_Atmel_644PA.html https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__49254__Hobbyking... Its brain is an ATmega644, which only requires 240µA @ 1.8V, 1MHz, according to the spec sheet. http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega644.aspx http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega644.aspx You do need energy-dense batteries, but all that energy goes into the rotors.

nine_k 13y ago

I'd say Lithium-ion batteries, cheap and power-efficient controllers, cheap sensors (orientation, acceleration, GPS), and the quad-copter layout. With them you can build a device which is lightweight enough to fly for tens of minutes, and can easily orient itself. This lets you control it with high-level commands. You can say "fly there, face north, stand still", something you can't usually say to a traditional helicopter.

sopooneo 13y ago
Exactly. Everything that the global smart-phone market pushed the prices down on.
nlh 13y ago
Great answer(s)! (To you and other repliers -- thanks everyone.) Makes sense. Not one single big thing (i.e. AWS for web companies), but a really great example of one industry benefitting and emerging because of cost improvements and advances in a different industry. I, for one, continue to be excited about our drone overlords.

uptown 13y ago

I think it's a combination of prices coming down for the quad-copters, cheap GoPro's providing HD video of the flights, and YouTube being available as a marketing platform to convince others to buy their own.

doctoboggan 13y ago

The cell phone industry has massively driven down the costs of the gyros and accelerometers needed to easily fly a quadcoptor. You also mentioned tiny cameras, another component that benefitted from the economies of scale of the cell phone manufacturers.. For example, you can buy a quadcoptor that fits int he palm of your hand for less than $40: http://www.amazon.com/Estes-4606-Proto-Quadcopter-Black/dp/B00G924W98 http://www.amazon.com/Estes-4606-Proto-Quadcopter-Black/dp/B...

dronehire 13y ago
This is correct. In addition to the plummeting cost of sensors, communities such as DIY Drones and OpenPilot have made enormous contributions to the accessibility of this technology, by developing open-source autopilots that rival the capabilities of very expensive proprietary products.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  the day isn't that far off where robots get set off to do work either hazardous, monotonous, or even just require constant precision, with regards to vehicle operation. As I posted before and I got the book idea from another here, Red Mars has a great amount of imaginative use of robotic vehicles and manufacturing. Just like with this drone, besides eliminating some safety concerns we eventually will eliminate the other costly part, not having enough time to do all we want. With enough drones there won't be much we cannot do for time, just money will come up to the forefront.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Also the Robot series by Asimov, particularly Caves of Steel / The Naked Sun / The Robots of Dawn. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_series_%28Asimov%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_series_%28Asimov%29
baddox 13y ago
By the way, that's the best toy quadcopter I've ever used (sample size of 4), and to say it fits in the palm of your hand is overstating its size. Three or four of them would easily fit in the palm of your hand, or the quadcopter and its tiny controller: http://cdn9.modelairplanenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ProtoX.jpg http://cdn9.modelairplanenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11...

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

I agree with other posters that it has been the culmination of several things. Batteries with high energy:weight. MEMS sensors (thanks, nuclear weapon stewardship programs) http://mems.sandia.gov/ http://mems.sandia.gov/ Cheap, open-ish, powerful SoC microprocessors, and the community of hackers (lots of help, and easy tools that lowered the learning curve). Development of better "linear" circuits like advanced brushless motor controllers and chargers. Growing robust hobbyist electronics tinkerer marketplace. Maybe cheap 3D printing too, making prototyping easier/faster/better/more fun.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

"What's the big technological driver that's allowed / caused this to happen?" As with most things, several things had to come together in order for this to happen. A probably incomplete list. 1) Lithium chemistry batteries - unlike Nickel, Cadmium, or Lead chemisty batteries, Lithium batteries are have a lower weight per watt-second than the others. 2) Micro-Electro-Mechanical-Systems (MEMS) - which is a technique for building a mechanical system (like a balance beam) using the same processes that create integrated circuits. This opened up developing accelerometers, gyroscopes, and magnetometers where the sensor and the conditioning circuit were all in the same silicon die. That hugely lowered the cost of such things, and has evolved to the point of providing 9 degree of freedom systems that are on one, or two inexpensive chips. 3 - Cheap 32 bit Micros - Emergence of inexpensive 32 bit microprocessors with DSP like features. The ARM Cortex M series in particular. Even with a cheap inertial sensor you need to process it fast enough and with enough precision to act. DSPs can do this but they are complex, difficult to program, and development tools are expensive. 32 bit ARM processors are easily engaged by high school students using off the shelf free tools. 4 - High performance MOSFETs (low Rds(on) resistance), cheap hall effect sensors - these allowed people to build brushless motors with atonishing power to weight ratios. From CD-ROM spindle motors putting out 1/2 HP for electric planes to 15W motors the size of pager motors which are quite light weight. Of course that all of this stuff is light weight gets the weight down to the point where you have enough power to lift it, and the integration gets the costs down to where you can build something on a small budget (a few hundred dollars, well within the budgets of active modelers)

gcb0 13y ago
isn't lithium more prone to failure on higher temps? also, i'd love to know what the propellers are made of. If it was me trying to film that close to a volcano, i'd simply use better lens :)
- jonknee 13y ago
  The props are made of plastic (I have a similar unit as the person who made the video, I just don't live near a volcano). Coincidentally, I actually ordered a spare set today: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013324-REG/dji_part3_phanton_2_self_tightening_propeller.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013324-REG/dji_part3_...