8 ms·

North Dakota oil boom: American Dream on ice

34 points by goatforce5 13y ago

transfire 13y ago
If that's all that's left of the "American Dream" then America has gone straight to hell. Hell, it even looks it.
- mildtrepidation 13y ago
  It's ridiculous to suggest that someone's statement to that effect is necessarily true for anyone else, particularly in a place as big as the USA. The economy varies widely between towns, let alone between states. America is going to hell in plenty of ways... along with most of the rest of the world. This story isn't exactly a big contributor or indicator of those progressions, though.
  - josefresco 13y ago
    Case in point, Texas (because of it's size) is #1 in almost every economic category. #1 per capita energy consumption but also #1 in green (wind) energy.
    - outside1234 13y ago
      Yes, if California is #0.
      - josefresco 13y ago
        My point was not to debate the specific points (which is why I didn't provide reference URLs), only illustrate that the US is physically large, and has many different regional economies. Even contradicting economies within the same state. Your point about CA only reenforces this. But I get it, CA is awesomely green in every way... great for them. I'm not fan of Texas but the shear size of the state and population means they have several economic "identities".
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      > Case in point, Texas (because of it's size) is #1 in almost every economic category. Texas is neither the largest state by area (that's Alaska, Texas is #2) nor population (that's California, Texas is, again, #2). Nor is it #1 in most economic categories (e.g., by GDP California is #1 and Texas, again, #2 [1]; by GDP per capita, Texas is #19 -- #20 if DC is included as a "state" -- and Delaware -- or, if DC is included, DC -- is #1. [2]) > #1 per capita energy consumption Size doesn't really justify being #1 in per capita anything, but then again, according to the US Dept. of Energy [3], Wyoming is #1 per capita energy consumption overall, and Texas is #6. EDIT to add: > but also #1 in green (wind) energy. Texas is actually #1 in wind energy (probably not #1 in "green" energy, which normally means renewables; Texas has a very high ratio of wind to total renewables.) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_... [3] http://www.eia.gov/state/seds/data.cfm?incfile=/state/seds/sep_sum/html/rank_use_capita.html&sid=US http://www.eia.gov/state/seds/data.cfm?incfile=/state/seds/s...
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - josefresco 13y ago
        Uhg, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Thanks for the reference links, and the point by point break down of my anecdotal comment (I love HNers...really) If we take a breather, and look at the parent comment, it was about how large America is and how in this one area things might be very wrong, but many other areas of the US there are things that are going very right. The American dream is not tied completely to the drilling for gas in ND.
- tsax 13y ago
  Yes, heaven forbid some beefy blue collar workers make an honest living extracting useful resources from the ground. No, let's all become Warby Parker wearing hipster app-developers in Brooklyn and SF.
  - Dirlewanger 13y ago
    This place is one of the worst on the Internet for discussing anything social/cultural outside of the relatively puny start-up world.
  - badman_ting 13y ago
    I figured someone would take this tack (hipster warby parker bloggedy blog) in response to revulsion at this scene. But I agree with GP, it's gross and sounds like a living nightmare.
mkautzm 13y ago
Yeah, I live very, very close to that area. If I go more than 30 miles West, I run into that shithole that is 'The American Dream'. If it was within my power to turn back the clock and make the calls that needed to be made at the time, I'd have never let that boom start. To say that the northwestern third of North Dakota has been destroyed is an understatement; It brings me to tears just thinking about it.
- protomyth 13y ago
  "North Dakota has been destroyed is an understatement" Please explain how you see this?
  - mkautzm 13y ago
    First, the culture of the state is being 'ruined'. One of the neatest thing about growing up in rural ND with roots in small towns is that your network of people automatically extends about 100 miles in any direction. Just last week I visited a town about 120 miles removed from my own home town and this conversation played out: "Hi, I'm Tom Becker, I'm here to do X" "Becker? Do you know Bill Becker?" "I do! He's my cousin!" And immediately everyone is totally disarmed and we have common ground even though we live half a state away. Everyone really does have no more than 1 or 2 social links separating everyone else in a region. Your last name is a really powerful device in a conversation with other people and it's really awesome to have that kind of link to a people in a country that otherwise is completely devoid of that and culture in general. With the huge influx of people in north western ND, that is no longer true of that area. In fact, my 'regional social bubble' has been effectively cut to about 70% of it's original size because the people that live west of me aren't the same people that used to live west of me. This brings me to my second problem: People don't want to, or literally cannot stay in their home towns. It has become very, very expensive to live west of Glen Ullin, and if you are a woman, it has also become very dangerous. Renting in Dickinson costs comically huge amounts of money and if you happened to own a house in Williston, well your property tax has went up by a factor of four so sucks to be you if you can't pay that any more. If you want to purchase gas in Dickinson or any further west, you need to prepay for it, which is an idea that didn't exist in the region before all this, but again, crime has become an issue. Somehow, Williston is still operating in the red because infrastructure costs money turns out and paying for all the public services required of a city that is growing at the rate it is is crippling, not to mention the police force is way understaffed because the kinds of people that are attracted to these kinds of jobs are also the kind of people that tend to commit a cocktail of felonies in a state where crime may have well used to not exist. Meanwhile, despite all these problems, the state has decided to play super nice with the oil companies and reduce tax rates for them no less than twice since they've shown up for reasons I can't quite comprehend (again, Williston and other cities still operate in the red because of all of this.) The existing infrastructure is going to total shit and the roads are incredibly dangerous, especially during the winter months. We have trains that are blowing up in cities 250 miles away for reasons that may or may not be caused by this boom. There are a dozen oil spills every month and the drinking water has become very questionable for cities that are in the Bakken region. All this on top of what has been done to the environment proper. What used to be rolling plains is now a shitshow of wells and flares. Unlike coal mines, which are required to restore the prairie to a state that was equal to or better than how they found it, no such strict laws exist for oil companies, so guess what it's going to look like 30 years from now. I mean, you literally have coal companies like Great River displaying the state of their mines after restoration and bragging about how much better everything is after they leave with 'before, during, after' picture galleries. That will probably not exist in the oil company's PR portfolio. Finally, the state was operating in the black before all this. We didn't need this at all. What the state should have said is something to the effect of, "You can come and drill, but you will pay for everything you do. Any cost of anything, whether it be infrastructure, property taxes of existing citizens, expansion of emergency and civil services, eventual decommissioning costs, spills, accidents and problems and all their associated costs -- those costs are your's to take on, plus taxes. If you don't want to pay all that, then kindly consider your requests denied until a point where you are willing to actually pay for the hell you are about to unleash on the state." That of course didn't happen, so now we are here. We have a third of the state converted to a total wasteland, their residents effectively told to 'deal with it', all for reasons that almost certainly come back to the almighty dollar that only a select few will actually ever see. Fuck the oil boom
davidw 13y ago
For a different view: http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591748-theres-gold-them-there-wells http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591748-th...
- joshuahedlund 13y ago
  > The sudden abundance of natural gas has drastically reduced American energy bills while curbing greenhouse-gas emissions, since gas is cleaner than coal. This is the key point worth acknowledging, in my opinion. It's difficult to maintain a balanced perspective when sources like these emphasize almost entirely positive effects and sources like OP emphasize almost entirely negative effects.
  - dluftdfreheit 13y ago
    Lets be clear: Burning natural gas (CH4) still puts carbon into the atmosphere. It's true that natural gas put less "black carbon" and other things into the atmosphere. It's much more clean than coal. But it will still enhance the greenhouse effect that is warming the planet. It is still a fossil fuel.
    - gd1 13y ago
      Lets be clear: not everyone is convinced that putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is even a problem.
      - afterburner 13y ago
        97% of climate scientists agreeing not good enough for you?
        gd1 13y ago
        100% of priests agree there is a god.
arethuza 13y ago
Slightly off topic, but here's a link to a museum site about what was probably the world's first shale oil boom - 160 years ago: http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/ http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/
happyscrappy 13y ago
"With no college degree and little experience, it's possible to land a job with a six-figure salary"
- computerbob 13y ago
  Yeah, I read the article too.
- protomyth 13y ago
  To make real money without a college education, you need vocational training or a CDL (commercial drivers license). Or provide one of the other services (food, entertainment) well.
  - TheCapn 13y ago
    These companies are desperate. They'll pay for anyone to get the training if they're able bodied.
- pabb 13y ago
  It's true. I live in Cleveland and I met a guy on public transit a couple years back that I struck up conversation with because he was wearing a cowboy hat and boots and was clearly out of his element. He told me he was in town for an oil conference and told me all about the Bakken region and the mad rush of companies looking to get a piece of the pie. Essentially, once the oil basin was discovered, all the major US oil producers stormed the region and immediately began setting up shop. As a result, they also offered massive salaries for anyone willing to come up and work, especially young guys. He told me the major draw at first was truck drivers, who were making six-figures easily (side note: the roads in and out of town were decimated due to the amount of trucking passing through). Obviously the first ones to get established are going to get the most benefit from fracking the region, so it's easy to see why they offered such outrageous salaries. Likewise, I remember him telling me about how there was absolutely nothing to do up there besides hit the bar, so that also pushes salaries higher. I know software (and its wages) is the all-powerful blood of the Earth, according to HN, but don't be so skeptical of the power of supply and demand.
applecore 13y ago
Another perspective: http://www.buzzfeed.com/susanelizabethshepard/wildcatting-a-strippers-guide-to-the-modern-american-boomtow http://www.buzzfeed.com/susanelizabethshepard/wildcatting-a-...
josefresco 13y ago
Every article I read about this topic focuses on 3 things; strippers, housing shortages and ..strippers (I'm only half joking). I get the idea of writing an article that will attract clicks and views but I'd like to read more articles that focus on why we're drilling for gas here and what it means for the country in the long term. Boom towns are full of all kinds of awful, I would imagine many similar articles were written about the gold rush and other mass movements of workers but that situation is only temporary and in the grand scheme of things not very important. Does America want to be an energy producer? If not are we willing to do business with countries that do, that might also have problems with Americans? Also, ss this the kind of energy America wants to produce? To me it boils down to national security (or terrorism if you must) and prices. Having the security of energy in your backyard comes with tradeoffs. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but could we all stop focusing on the strip clubs and instead look at the bigger picture?
- skaevola 13y ago
  Try this: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21596553-benefits-shale-oil-are-bigger-many-americans-realise-policy-has-yet-catch http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21596553-benefit...
- cwal37 13y ago
  Alternately, we are more secure as a nation state because oil is a global market. Then, as countries become more reliant on each other for crude, revenue, and finished petroleum products they are less likely to upset the balance. Additionally, in 2012, we imported ~40% of our oil (lowest it's been in a long time), and our biggest import country, by far, is Canada. Here's an EIA link: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6 http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6 Terrorism can be a problem of course, but I would be more concerned about the grid than our access to oil.
  - josefresco 13y ago
    "countries become more reliant on each other for crude" If the country that is selling you oil/energy is doing bad things this reliant nature of our relationship also ties our hands when it comes to calling them on their shit. See the Ukraine or pretty much any geo-political matter. Isolationism isn't the only solution, but inter-dependance has it's own drawbacks.
protomyth 13y ago
I'm getting a little sick of the stripper articles. Can we please get an article talking about why the housing is still not adequate. It has mostly to do with sewage and not a lot of innovation in housing. If there ever was a place to experiment with rapid or innovative housing methods, its ND. I went out to western North Dakota a couple weeks ago. I've been in Chicago during rush hour, but I've never experienced that type of traffic. It was unreal. Williston has always been a shhole. I am getting a little sick of the "oh, it was such a nice town". I lived in a small town near there in the late 70's and it always had a dark side.
my_name_is 13y ago
I'm probably one of the very few in this community that has actually worked in Williston. Worked for the largest (worldwide) upstream service company for a couple years. I didn't see myself working in the industry while attending school, but I graduated at a bad time, job market wise. It was really interesting work, got to understand the industry better than most people who just read superficial information, and it paid off the student loads in little over a year. It probably would have required less if I didn't freely spend the money on toys and party (Work hard, party hard is the industry motto). Williston is what I would consider to be the Wild West. Instead of horses, everyone has trucks. Heck, I had a company truck as well. And it is dirty. People always have a mouthful of chew. Last time I worked out there (2011), housing was expensive and in shortage. The major players at the time were in the process of building up man camps to circumvent this. For those who are unfortunate in not finding a place, you would sleep in a truck. There was this shower service that was started up this entrepreneurial kid; trailers that were outfitted with private shower stalls that were charged by an hour. It's definitely different than the pampered lifestyle one is used to. Reading from the comments, some people have talked down the blue collar workers that work in this industry. Yes, they may not hold the same education as many of us, but they are some of the most down-to-earth, dependable, hard working people I have met. They are definitely more "real" than many of the people I've met in the city. This is the type of industry where you have to go in and prove yourself out of greenhorn status. Once you do that, you earn yourself great coworkers and friends. Otherwise you are going to have a bad time. You also need a thick skin and able to dish back, since this is the oil patch after all. The two things that were good about Williston: Walmart (I know, I didn't appreciate Walmart unti l I lived in the inner West states. They are your only and best option you have) and the 24-hour diner nearby it.
- mkautzm 13y ago
  > but they are some of the most down-to-earth, dependable, hard working people I have met. They are definitely more "real" than many of the people I've met in the city. They also have managed to bring in a crime problem that didn't previously exist. As 'real' as they people may be, there is a larger portion of them that are prone to committing felonies it seems. That's the problem people have with them. And it's not a function of population either. Looking at Fargo, Metro area population 220k~, we see a crime rate significantly lower than that of Williston and even Dickinson.
AnotherDesigner 13y ago
I lived close to that area for a while and know people that have moved to North Dakota to work. They're coming right out of high school and immediately making tons of money. A lot of it is wasted on motorcycles, TVs, trucks, alcohol and drugs. The work itself can be very hard, taking a toll on even the youngest and strongest of them. It's put a strain on a lot of marriages as husbands have moved away to work leaving their wives and children behind in communities that can provide decent homes, schools and safety. It's a difficult situation for me because I know a lot of people that rely on this work to support themselves and their families. Without oil, gas and coal many of these communities would collapse. At the same time, I know the effect this has on the environment and I support us moving towards cleaner, renewable energy sources. I don't have a solution for any of this, just a lot of empathy for everyone involved.
- mkautzm 13y ago
  Really quick here -- Most of the communities that existed before the oil boom would have been fine without it. Some small towns were slowly dying, but the major players and what was effectively their suburbs (South Heart's relationship with Dickinson for example) left the region stable. For those that were slowly circling the drain of death, they've been handed a fate even worse.

34 points by goatforce5 13y ago

transfire 13y ago

If that's all that's left of the "American Dream" then America has gone straight to hell. Hell, it even looks it.

mildtrepidation 13y ago
It's ridiculous to suggest that someone's statement to that effect is necessarily true for anyone else, particularly in a place as big as the USA. The economy varies widely between towns, let alone between states. America is going to hell in plenty of ways... along with most of the rest of the world. This story isn't exactly a big contributor or indicator of those progressions, though.
- josefresco 13y ago
  Case in point, Texas (because of it's size) is #1 in almost every economic category. #1 per capita energy consumption but also #1 in green (wind) energy.
  - outside1234 13y ago
    Yes, if California is #0.
    - josefresco 13y ago
      My point was not to debate the specific points (which is why I didn't provide reference URLs), only illustrate that the US is physically large, and has many different regional economies. Even contradicting economies within the same state. Your point about CA only reenforces this. But I get it, CA is awesomely green in every way... great for them. I'm not fan of Texas but the shear size of the state and population means they have several economic "identities".
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Case in point, Texas (because of it's size) is #1 in almost every economic category. Texas is neither the largest state by area (that's Alaska, Texas is #2) nor population (that's California, Texas is, again, #2). Nor is it #1 in most economic categories (e.g., by GDP California is #1 and Texas, again, #2 [1]; by GDP per capita, Texas is #19 -- #20 if DC is included as a "state" -- and Delaware -- or, if DC is included, DC -- is #1. [2]) > #1 per capita energy consumption Size doesn't really justify being #1 in per capita anything, but then again, according to the US Dept. of Energy [3], Wyoming is #1 per capita energy consumption overall, and Texas is #6. EDIT to add: > but also #1 in green (wind) energy. Texas is actually #1 in wind energy (probably not #1 in "green" energy, which normally means renewables; Texas has a very high ratio of wind to total renewables.) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_... [3] http://www.eia.gov/state/seds/data.cfm?incfile=/state/seds/sep_sum/html/rank_use_capita.html&sid=US http://www.eia.gov/state/seds/data.cfm?incfile=/state/seds/s...
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - josefresco 13y ago
      Uhg, I should have chosen my words more carefully. Thanks for the reference links, and the point by point break down of my anecdotal comment (I love HNers...really) If we take a breather, and look at the parent comment, it was about how large America is and how in this one area things might be very wrong, but many other areas of the US there are things that are going very right. The American dream is not tied completely to the drilling for gas in ND.
tsax 13y ago
Yes, heaven forbid some beefy blue collar workers make an honest living extracting useful resources from the ground. No, let's all become Warby Parker wearing hipster app-developers in Brooklyn and SF.
- Dirlewanger 13y ago
  This place is one of the worst on the Internet for discussing anything social/cultural outside of the relatively puny start-up world.
- badman_ting 13y ago
  I figured someone would take this tack (hipster warby parker bloggedy blog) in response to revulsion at this scene. But I agree with GP, it's gross and sounds like a living nightmare.

mkautzm 13y ago

Yeah, I live very, very close to that area. If I go more than 30 miles West, I run into that shithole that is 'The American Dream'. If it was within my power to turn back the clock and make the calls that needed to be made at the time, I'd have never let that boom start. To say that the northwestern third of North Dakota has been destroyed is an understatement; It brings me to tears just thinking about it.

protomyth 13y ago
"North Dakota has been destroyed is an understatement" Please explain how you see this?
- mkautzm 13y ago
  First, the culture of the state is being 'ruined'. One of the neatest thing about growing up in rural ND with roots in small towns is that your network of people automatically extends about 100 miles in any direction. Just last week I visited a town about 120 miles removed from my own home town and this conversation played out: "Hi, I'm Tom Becker, I'm here to do X" "Becker? Do you know Bill Becker?" "I do! He's my cousin!" And immediately everyone is totally disarmed and we have common ground even though we live half a state away. Everyone really does have no more than 1 or 2 social links separating everyone else in a region. Your last name is a really powerful device in a conversation with other people and it's really awesome to have that kind of link to a people in a country that otherwise is completely devoid of that and culture in general. With the huge influx of people in north western ND, that is no longer true of that area. In fact, my 'regional social bubble' has been effectively cut to about 70% of it's original size because the people that live west of me aren't the same people that used to live west of me. This brings me to my second problem: People don't want to, or literally cannot stay in their home towns. It has become very, very expensive to live west of Glen Ullin, and if you are a woman, it has also become very dangerous. Renting in Dickinson costs comically huge amounts of money and if you happened to own a house in Williston, well your property tax has went up by a factor of four so sucks to be you if you can't pay that any more. If you want to purchase gas in Dickinson or any further west, you need to prepay for it, which is an idea that didn't exist in the region before all this, but again, crime has become an issue. Somehow, Williston is still operating in the red because infrastructure costs money turns out and paying for all the public services required of a city that is growing at the rate it is is crippling, not to mention the police force is way understaffed because the kinds of people that are attracted to these kinds of jobs are also the kind of people that tend to commit a cocktail of felonies in a state where crime may have well used to not exist. Meanwhile, despite all these problems, the state has decided to play super nice with the oil companies and reduce tax rates for them no less than twice since they've shown up for reasons I can't quite comprehend (again, Williston and other cities still operate in the red because of all of this.) The existing infrastructure is going to total shit and the roads are incredibly dangerous, especially during the winter months. We have trains that are blowing up in cities 250 miles away for reasons that may or may not be caused by this boom. There are a dozen oil spills every month and the drinking water has become very questionable for cities that are in the Bakken region. All this on top of what has been done to the environment proper. What used to be rolling plains is now a shitshow of wells and flares. Unlike coal mines, which are required to restore the prairie to a state that was equal to or better than how they found it, no such strict laws exist for oil companies, so guess what it's going to look like 30 years from now. I mean, you literally have coal companies like Great River displaying the state of their mines after restoration and bragging about how much better everything is after they leave with 'before, during, after' picture galleries. That will probably not exist in the oil company's PR portfolio. Finally, the state was operating in the black before all this. We didn't need this at all. What the state should have said is something to the effect of, "You can come and drill, but you will pay for everything you do. Any cost of anything, whether it be infrastructure, property taxes of existing citizens, expansion of emergency and civil services, eventual decommissioning costs, spills, accidents and problems and all their associated costs -- those costs are your's to take on, plus taxes. If you don't want to pay all that, then kindly consider your requests denied until a point where you are willing to actually pay for the hell you are about to unleash on the state." That of course didn't happen, so now we are here. We have a third of the state converted to a total wasteland, their residents effectively told to 'deal with it', all for reasons that almost certainly come back to the almighty dollar that only a select few will actually ever see. Fuck the oil boom

davidw 13y ago

For a different view: http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591748-theres-gold-them-there-wells http://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21591748-th...

joshuahedlund 13y ago
> The sudden abundance of natural gas has drastically reduced American energy bills while curbing greenhouse-gas emissions, since gas is cleaner than coal. This is the key point worth acknowledging, in my opinion. It's difficult to maintain a balanced perspective when sources like these emphasize almost entirely positive effects and sources like OP emphasize almost entirely negative effects.
- dluftdfreheit 13y ago
  Lets be clear: Burning natural gas (CH4) still puts carbon into the atmosphere. It's true that natural gas put less "black carbon" and other things into the atmosphere. It's much more clean than coal. But it will still enhance the greenhouse effect that is warming the planet. It is still a fossil fuel.
  - gd1 13y ago
    Lets be clear: not everyone is convinced that putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is even a problem.
    - afterburner 13y ago
      97% of climate scientists agreeing not good enough for you?
      - gd1 13y ago
        100% of priests agree there is a god.

arethuza 13y ago

Slightly off topic, but here's a link to a museum site about what was probably the world's first shale oil boom - 160 years ago: http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/ http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/

happyscrappy 13y ago

"With no college degree and little experience, it's possible to land a job with a six-figure salary"

computerbob 13y ago
Yeah, I read the article too.
protomyth 13y ago
To make real money without a college education, you need vocational training or a CDL (commercial drivers license). Or provide one of the other services (food, entertainment) well.
- TheCapn 13y ago
  These companies are desperate. They'll pay for anyone to get the training if they're able bodied.
pabb 13y ago
It's true. I live in Cleveland and I met a guy on public transit a couple years back that I struck up conversation with because he was wearing a cowboy hat and boots and was clearly out of his element. He told me he was in town for an oil conference and told me all about the Bakken region and the mad rush of companies looking to get a piece of the pie. Essentially, once the oil basin was discovered, all the major US oil producers stormed the region and immediately began setting up shop. As a result, they also offered massive salaries for anyone willing to come up and work, especially young guys. He told me the major draw at first was truck drivers, who were making six-figures easily (side note: the roads in and out of town were decimated due to the amount of trucking passing through). Obviously the first ones to get established are going to get the most benefit from fracking the region, so it's easy to see why they offered such outrageous salaries. Likewise, I remember him telling me about how there was absolutely nothing to do up there besides hit the bar, so that also pushes salaries higher. I know software (and its wages) is the all-powerful blood of the Earth, according to HN, but don't be so skeptical of the power of supply and demand.

applecore 13y ago

Another perspective: http://www.buzzfeed.com/susanelizabethshepard/wildcatting-a-strippers-guide-to-the-modern-american-boomtow http://www.buzzfeed.com/susanelizabethshepard/wildcatting-a-...

josefresco 13y ago

Every article I read about this topic focuses on 3 things; strippers, housing shortages and ..strippers (I'm only half joking). I get the idea of writing an article that will attract clicks and views but I'd like to read more articles that focus on why we're drilling for gas here and what it means for the country in the long term. Boom towns are full of all kinds of awful, I would imagine many similar articles were written about the gold rush and other mass movements of workers but that situation is only temporary and in the grand scheme of things not very important. Does America want to be an energy producer? If not are we willing to do business with countries that do, that might also have problems with Americans? Also, ss this the kind of energy America wants to produce? To me it boils down to national security (or terrorism if you must) and prices. Having the security of energy in your backyard comes with tradeoffs. I'm not sure what the right answer is, but could we all stop focusing on the strip clubs and instead look at the bigger picture?

skaevola 13y ago
Try this: http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21596553-benefits-shale-oil-are-bigger-many-americans-realise-policy-has-yet-catch http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21596553-benefit...
cwal37 13y ago
Alternately, we are more secure as a nation state because oil is a global market. Then, as countries become more reliant on each other for crude, revenue, and finished petroleum products they are less likely to upset the balance. Additionally, in 2012, we imported ~40% of our oil (lowest it's been in a long time), and our biggest import country, by far, is Canada. Here's an EIA link: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6 http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6 Terrorism can be a problem of course, but I would be more concerned about the grid than our access to oil.
- josefresco 13y ago
  "countries become more reliant on each other for crude" If the country that is selling you oil/energy is doing bad things this reliant nature of our relationship also ties our hands when it comes to calling them on their shit. See the Ukraine or pretty much any geo-political matter. Isolationism isn't the only solution, but inter-dependance has it's own drawbacks.

protomyth 13y ago

I'm getting a little sick of the stripper articles. Can we please get an article talking about why the housing is still not adequate. It has mostly to do with sewage and not a lot of innovation in housing. If there ever was a place to experiment with rapid or innovative housing methods, its ND. I went out to western North Dakota a couple weeks ago. I've been in Chicago during rush hour, but I've never experienced that type of traffic. It was unreal. Williston has always been a shhole. I am getting a little sick of the "oh, it was such a nice town". I lived in a small town near there in the late 70's and it always had a dark side.

my_name_is 13y ago

I'm probably one of the very few in this community that has actually worked in Williston. Worked for the largest (worldwide) upstream service company for a couple years. I didn't see myself working in the industry while attending school, but I graduated at a bad time, job market wise. It was really interesting work, got to understand the industry better than most people who just read superficial information, and it paid off the student loads in little over a year. It probably would have required less if I didn't freely spend the money on toys and party (Work hard, party hard is the industry motto). Williston is what I would consider to be the Wild West. Instead of horses, everyone has trucks. Heck, I had a company truck as well. And it is dirty. People always have a mouthful of chew. Last time I worked out there (2011), housing was expensive and in shortage. The major players at the time were in the process of building up man camps to circumvent this. For those who are unfortunate in not finding a place, you would sleep in a truck. There was this shower service that was started up this entrepreneurial kid; trailers that were outfitted with private shower stalls that were charged by an hour. It's definitely different than the pampered lifestyle one is used to. Reading from the comments, some people have talked down the blue collar workers that work in this industry. Yes, they may not hold the same education as many of us, but they are some of the most down-to-earth, dependable, hard working people I have met. They are definitely more "real" than many of the people I've met in the city. This is the type of industry where you have to go in and prove yourself out of greenhorn status. Once you do that, you earn yourself great coworkers and friends. Otherwise you are going to have a bad time. You also need a thick skin and able to dish back, since this is the oil patch after all. The two things that were good about Williston: Walmart (I know, I didn't appreciate Walmart unti l I lived in the inner West states. They are your only and best option you have) and the 24-hour diner nearby it.

mkautzm 13y ago
> but they are some of the most down-to-earth, dependable, hard working people I have met. They are definitely more "real" than many of the people I've met in the city. They also have managed to bring in a crime problem that didn't previously exist. As 'real' as they people may be, there is a larger portion of them that are prone to committing felonies it seems. That's the problem people have with them. And it's not a function of population either. Looking at Fargo, Metro area population 220k~, we see a crime rate significantly lower than that of Williston and even Dickinson.

AnotherDesigner 13y ago

I lived close to that area for a while and know people that have moved to North Dakota to work. They're coming right out of high school and immediately making tons of money. A lot of it is wasted on motorcycles, TVs, trucks, alcohol and drugs. The work itself can be very hard, taking a toll on even the youngest and strongest of them. It's put a strain on a lot of marriages as husbands have moved away to work leaving their wives and children behind in communities that can provide decent homes, schools and safety. It's a difficult situation for me because I know a lot of people that rely on this work to support themselves and their families. Without oil, gas and coal many of these communities would collapse. At the same time, I know the effect this has on the environment and I support us moving towards cleaner, renewable energy sources. I don't have a solution for any of this, just a lot of empathy for everyone involved.

mkautzm 13y ago
Really quick here -- Most of the communities that existed before the oil boom would have been fine without it. Some small towns were slowly dying, but the major players and what was effectively their suburbs (South Heart's relationship with Dickinson for example) left the region stable. For those that were slowly circling the drain of death, they've been handed a fate even worse.