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Here in Wales schoolchildren are forced to learn a minority language in school. Welsh Language is given a very prominent position - it's only spoken in Wales (a

by pbhj 17y ago

Here in Wales schoolchildren are forced to learn a minority language in school. Welsh Language is given a very prominent position - it's only spoken in Wales (and bizarrely in a small area in Patagonia). I'd sooner have my kids learn a language they can use to communicate with other people that can't speak English - it's possible that there are perhaps a couple of kids now that haven't been taught English, Welsh all but died before being resurrected as a [false] part of nationalist pride. I find it very strange, I'd sooner Hindi or Urdu or Mandarin or Japanese or Spanish. Something useful. They may as well be learning Ancient Sumerian (I'd still probably prefer that). Not all second languages are equal.

wallflower 17y ago
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Linguistic_maps_of_the_world http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Linguistic_maps_o...
goals 17y ago
> I find it very strange, I'd sooner Hindi or Urdu Hindi and Urdu are practically the same languages (though, with different scripts - Hindi uses Devanagari; Urdu uses an Arabic-derived script). You can refer to both Urdu and Hindi as 'Hindustani'. Furthermore, learning Hindustani really is very advantageous. Every other grad student I see nowadays speaks Hindi (Indians, Bengalis, Pakistanis, etc.). Its speakers are usually very warm-hearted, and even more welcoming when they see someone making an effort to learn their language (and culture). Oh, and it's also the second most-spoken language by number of native-speakers. [Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_... ]
idlewords 17y ago
I've been to that tiny part of Patagonia. Sadly Welsh is no longer spoken - the older generation understands it, but for the kids it's strictly Spanish.
- pbhj 17y ago
  Curious as to your answer: why is it sad? Surely if the kids speak fluent Spanish instead of Welsh then they can now (in their first language) communicate with far more people in the world. That's got to be better for cultural exchange, social mobility, access to services, business, etc., no? I can see an argument about losing some of the rich tradition, but the world moves on.
euccastro 17y ago
A language that your kids can identify with as their own and practise everyday will do more for their further language learning ability than an 'useful' language that they'll gloss over in the classroom and seldom get to practice with natives. Also, if that 'false' nationalism perchance catches on, your English-Sumerian speaking children might end up feeling like half foreigners in their own country. I've seen that kind of thing and it's sad.
- pbhj 17y ago
  It's catching on, the gov spend millions on it. There's a lot of anti-English [people] sentiment which feeds into not speaking English (just because of the name of the language rolls-eyes). Gov jobs require it, despite not needing it. Middle classes use it to get kids into Welsh school and away from the poor performers and chav-y types. There are more daily Urdu and Mandarin speakers in the city I live in than Welsh speakers. Indeed, I work in a store and the only welsh language I hear is from educators speaking to their kids. It's probably the thing that would/will push me to move or seek alternative education (eg home-ed). I don't see Welsh language as being important enough to be a part of every school lesson.
  - euccastro 17y ago
    What you call "not speaking English" I'd just call "speaking Welsh". Your framing such self affirmation gestures negatively, as an aggression to the other, only shows your bias. The world will hopefully keep one more language around thanks to the people that make that perfectly legitimate choice. In any event, I bet any adversary feelings towards the English language are not due to the name but to the fact that it's been dislodging Welsh out of existance, as your reasoning illustrates. A Gov employee should be expected to know all official languages in the country where she'll be serving. Especially if she is going to have to face public. Considering to move or home school your children only to keep their minds uncontaminated by Welsh sounds more like political or social prejudice than actual educational concern. Trust me, knowing Welsh will only make it easier, not harder, for them to learn Urdu and Mandarin. In Spain, students from nations with one or more languages of their own average a higher proficiency in foreign languages (including Castillian, AKA Spanish) than those of monolingual provinces.

by pbhj 17y ago

wallflower 17y ago

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Linguistic_maps_of_the_world http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Linguistic_maps_o...

goals 17y ago

> I find it very strange, I'd sooner Hindi or Urdu Hindi and Urdu are practically the same languages (though, with different scripts - Hindi uses Devanagari; Urdu uses an Arabic-derived script). You can refer to both Urdu and Hindi as 'Hindustani'. Furthermore, learning Hindustani really is very advantageous. Every other grad student I see nowadays speaks Hindi (Indians, Bengalis, Pakistanis, etc.). Its speakers are usually very warm-hearted, and even more welcoming when they see someone making an effort to learn their language (and culture). Oh, and it's also the second most-spoken language by number of native-speakers. [Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_... ]

idlewords 17y ago

I've been to that tiny part of Patagonia. Sadly Welsh is no longer spoken - the older generation understands it, but for the kids it's strictly Spanish.

pbhj 17y ago
Curious as to your answer: why is it sad? Surely if the kids speak fluent Spanish instead of Welsh then they can now (in their first language) communicate with far more people in the world. That's got to be better for cultural exchange, social mobility, access to services, business, etc., no? I can see an argument about losing some of the rich tradition, but the world moves on.

euccastro 17y ago

A language that your kids can identify with as their own and practise everyday will do more for their further language learning ability than an 'useful' language that they'll gloss over in the classroom and seldom get to practice with natives. Also, if that 'false' nationalism perchance catches on, your English-Sumerian speaking children might end up feeling like half foreigners in their own country. I've seen that kind of thing and it's sad.

pbhj 17y ago
It's catching on, the gov spend millions on it. There's a lot of anti-English [people] sentiment which feeds into not speaking English (just because of the name of the language rolls-eyes). Gov jobs require it, despite not needing it. Middle classes use it to get kids into Welsh school and away from the poor performers and chav-y types. There are more daily Urdu and Mandarin speakers in the city I live in than Welsh speakers. Indeed, I work in a store and the only welsh language I hear is from educators speaking to their kids. It's probably the thing that would/will push me to move or seek alternative education (eg home-ed). I don't see Welsh language as being important enough to be a part of every school lesson.
- euccastro 17y ago
  What you call "not speaking English" I'd just call "speaking Welsh". Your framing such self affirmation gestures negatively, as an aggression to the other, only shows your bias. The world will hopefully keep one more language around thanks to the people that make that perfectly legitimate choice. In any event, I bet any adversary feelings towards the English language are not due to the name but to the fact that it's been dislodging Welsh out of existance, as your reasoning illustrates. A Gov employee should be expected to know all official languages in the country where she'll be serving. Especially if she is going to have to face public. Considering to move or home school your children only to keep their minds uncontaminated by Welsh sounds more like political or social prejudice than actual educational concern. Trust me, knowing Welsh will only make it easier, not harder, for them to learn Urdu and Mandarin. In Spain, students from nations with one or more languages of their own average a higher proficiency in foreign languages (including Castillian, AKA Spanish) than those of monolingual provinces.