4 ms·

That additional cost is probably gas tax, so instead of going towards paying a group of people to waste their time doing something trivial, that money is going

by ericd 13y ago

That additional cost is probably gas tax, so instead of going towards paying a group of people to waste their time doing something trivial, that money is going to pay for freeway maintenance, etc.

mullingitover 13y ago
> That additional cost is probably gas tax California's gas tax is ~$.70 per gallon, Oregon is ~$.50. Now granted, California has roughly 3x the miles of roadway that Oregon has...[1] This probably explains why California's roads are atrociously bad and Oregon's are relatively pristine. [1] http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/ http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/
- saryant 13y ago
  The difference isn't just in taxes. California has an artificially restricted supply of gasoline because it requires a specific formula (ostensibly to reduce emissions) and only six or seven refineries are equipped to meet that regulation. Oregon's standards allow it to buy from a far larger market.
  - ericd 13y ago
    Ah, good to know! Makes a lot of sense. Do you know if it actually does reduce emissions?
    - saryant 13y ago
      I don't know. This is actually one area where the refining industry wants federal regulation: they would vastly prefer to deal with a single set of standards for the whole country than tailoring individual plants to 50 different standards.
      - maxerickson 13y ago
        There are minimum federal standards: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/rfg/areas.htm http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/rfg/areas.htm So the state specific requirements only really matter if they exceed the federal standards. It's pretty likely that reformulated gasoline is effective in reducing smog (I think CO is the big target).
        saryant 13y ago
        > So the state specific requirements only really matter if they exceed the federal standards. Which is exactly the case in California, hence the higher prices.
        maxerickson 13y ago
        To a large extent, I was replying to your wording. There is federal regulation. I was probably over-reading.
    - cwal37 13y ago
      It does. Just at a very basic level they're reducing the amount of smog-producing particulates and toxins such as benzene in the typical gallon of gas. Obviously, a reduction in those constituents is going to affect their ratios in the combustion products, it's like reducing the number of moles on the left side of a balanced chemical equation. The moles on the right are going to drop because there's less material. California has an interesting history with environmental legislation, as it had a clean air board before the EPA existed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Air_Resources_Board http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Air_Resources_Board
pbreit 13y ago
I thought you were going to say: "instead of paying a local working human being providing a decent service, that money goes down the government rathole".
- ericd 13y ago
  It's not a decent service, though. It's a service not many want to pay extra for. Personally I would even pay a bit extra to be able to pump my own gas. It certainly doesn't save me any time to have them pump it for me, and it's awkward to boot. There's no shortage of things they could be doing, but instead, we're paying them to stand around most of the time inhaling gasoline fumes. We could instead be paying those people to do something actually useful, like running fiber to homes and businesses, or delivering goods so that we don't have to travel, or a million other things that would increase our productivity.

by ericd 13y ago

That additional cost is probably gas tax, so instead of going towards paying a group of people to waste their time doing something trivial, that money is going to pay for freeway maintenance, etc.

mullingitover 13y ago

> That additional cost is probably gas tax California's gas tax is ~$.70 per gallon, Oregon is ~$.50. Now granted, California has roughly 3x the miles of roadway that Oregon has...[1] This probably explains why California's roads are atrociously bad and Oregon's are relatively pristine. [1] http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/ http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/

saryant 13y ago
The difference isn't just in taxes. California has an artificially restricted supply of gasoline because it requires a specific formula (ostensibly to reduce emissions) and only six or seven refineries are equipped to meet that regulation. Oregon's standards allow it to buy from a far larger market.
- ericd 13y ago
  Ah, good to know! Makes a lot of sense. Do you know if it actually does reduce emissions?
  - saryant 13y ago
    I don't know. This is actually one area where the refining industry wants federal regulation: they would vastly prefer to deal with a single set of standards for the whole country than tailoring individual plants to 50 different standards.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      There are minimum federal standards: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/rfg/areas.htm http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasolinefuels/rfg/areas.htm So the state specific requirements only really matter if they exceed the federal standards. It's pretty likely that reformulated gasoline is effective in reducing smog (I think CO is the big target).
      - saryant 13y ago
        > So the state specific requirements only really matter if they exceed the federal standards. Which is exactly the case in California, hence the higher prices.
        maxerickson 13y ago
        To a large extent, I was replying to your wording. There is federal regulation. I was probably over-reading.
  - cwal37 13y ago
    It does. Just at a very basic level they're reducing the amount of smog-producing particulates and toxins such as benzene in the typical gallon of gas. Obviously, a reduction in those constituents is going to affect their ratios in the combustion products, it's like reducing the number of moles on the left side of a balanced chemical equation. The moles on the right are going to drop because there's less material. California has an interesting history with environmental legislation, as it had a clean air board before the EPA existed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Air_Resources_Board http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Air_Resources_Board

pbreit 13y ago

I thought you were going to say: "instead of paying a local working human being providing a decent service, that money goes down the government rathole".

ericd 13y ago
It's not a decent service, though. It's a service not many want to pay extra for. Personally I would even pay a bit extra to be able to pump my own gas. It certainly doesn't save me any time to have them pump it for me, and it's awkward to boot. There's no shortage of things they could be doing, but instead, we're paying them to stand around most of the time inhaling gasoline fumes. We could instead be paying those people to do something actually useful, like running fiber to homes and businesses, or delivering goods so that we don't have to travel, or a million other things that would increase our productivity.