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Having lived in Oregon (where motorists are put on a pedestal and actually served by gas station attendants) and then California, I don't understand the masses

Having lived in Oregon (where motorists are put on a pedestal and actually served by gas station attendants) and then California, I don't understand the masses clamoring to pump their own gas. Is this supposed to be a privilege, getting out of the car in potentially inclement weather and messing around with flammable liquids?

CamperBob2 13y ago
It's nothing but the broken-window fallacy in action. If I didn't want to pump my own gas, I'd pull into a full-service lane instead of a self-service one... but the market has pretty much spoken on that issue. I don't know where I'd even find a full-service lane anymore. There is almost no demand for it in the absence of coercion. (Yeah, yeah, I know, I should STFU and move to Somalia...)
- pbreit 13y ago
  Another example, along with cigarette-free establishments, that the free market is not capable of delivering.
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    Smoke-free businesses are a gray area, because we're talking about an addictive substance. Businesses that refuse to serve tobacco addicts are at a disadvantage that apparently can't be overcome by additional patronage from customers seeking a smoke-free environment. So the government steps in, in the name of public health. I don't agree with these laws 100%, but I can see the argument behind them. Full-service gas stations, on the other hand, are neither prohibited nor mandated in most states. They would exist if there was a market. There's not. End of story.
JeffL 13y ago
I would rather not pay someone (in the form of higher gas prices) to do something that takes nearly no effort, and I can damn well do myself. Who is so lazy at they can't get out of their comfy seat for 2 minutes?
- mullingitover 13y ago
  > I would rather not pay someone (in the form of higher gas prices) to do something that takes nearly no effort Then you'd be happy to know that in addition to having full service, Oregon's gas prices are ~$.40 per gallon cheaper than California's. Full service doesn't seem to be resulting in dramatically higher prices. > Who is so lazy at they can't get out of their comfy seat for 2 minutes? Who doesn't have better things to do with their time than inhale gasoline fumes?
  - abcabc321321123 13y ago
    That is not a fair comparison. California's gas tax (including excise tax) is higher than Oregon. In addition, California requires a more expensive blend of gasoline. A better comparison would be to a state that has similar taxes and gasoline requirements. As a bonus, the availability of refineries is a significant factor in gasoline prices.
  - smackfu 13y ago
    Same thing in NJ. And no one thinks prices would go down if they got rid of full service, so what would be the point?
  - ericd 13y ago
    That additional cost is probably gas tax, so instead of going towards paying a group of people to waste their time doing something trivial, that money is going to pay for freeway maintenance, etc.
    - mullingitover 13y ago
      > That additional cost is probably gas tax California's gas tax is ~$.70 per gallon, Oregon is ~$.50. Now granted, California has roughly 3x the miles of roadway that Oregon has...[1] This probably explains why California's roads are atrociously bad and Oregon's are relatively pristine. [1] http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/ http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/
crusso 13y ago
It's not about the convenience of staying in your car. It's about the cronyist/protectionist attitude of not letting different business models have an opportunity to serve consumers with various price and service mixes.
w1ntermute 13y ago
> Is this supposed to be a privilege, getting out of the car in potentially inclement weather and messing around with flammable liquids? Way to be hyperbolic. Why not let the customer decide whether or not they want to do it themselves, rather than choosing what's best for them? And surprise, surprise: in the 48 states where customers are free to choose, they overwhelmingly choose to pump their own gas.
chris_mahan 13y ago
The weather in California is rarely, if ever, inclement enough to make it a bother to get out of the car to pump gas. Most of the time it's quite pleasant, as you get 45 seconds to take in the clear blue sky, starry night, or gorgeous sunset.
ajcarpy2005 13y ago
Weird, I live in IA. I've never heard that there are states where gas cannot be pumped by the customer. Weather? All gas stations I've seen have an open pavilion/roof over all of the pumps. Flammable liquids? Unless you are smoking while pumping your gas, there's a pretty low risk of explosion or fire. There are cases of static electricity igniting the gas but that's rare. Normally the non-conductive handle protects against that very well. It seems that it would actually be less convenient to have to wait for an attendant, especially when the station is busy. Unlike service from behind the checkout counter, the attendant must walk around to each car...at least twice I'm assuming...to start and stop the fuel? I'm not familiar with it.
darksim905 13y ago
If you lived here you'd understand. NJ people are just like NY they have no time to get out of their car & deal with that bull, especially with bad weather an entire season. We also have the refineries here & we get cheaper gas almost always as a result. It's been challenged MANY times but the damn GOP old folks don't want to get it go.

CamperBob2 13y ago

It's nothing but the broken-window fallacy in action. If I didn't want to pump my own gas, I'd pull into a full-service lane instead of a self-service one... but the market has pretty much spoken on that issue. I don't know where I'd even find a full-service lane anymore. There is almost no demand for it in the absence of coercion. (Yeah, yeah, I know, I should STFU and move to Somalia...)

pbreit 13y ago
Another example, along with cigarette-free establishments, that the free market is not capable of delivering.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  Smoke-free businesses are a gray area, because we're talking about an addictive substance. Businesses that refuse to serve tobacco addicts are at a disadvantage that apparently can't be overcome by additional patronage from customers seeking a smoke-free environment. So the government steps in, in the name of public health. I don't agree with these laws 100%, but I can see the argument behind them. Full-service gas stations, on the other hand, are neither prohibited nor mandated in most states. They would exist if there was a market. There's not. End of story.

JeffL 13y ago

I would rather not pay someone (in the form of higher gas prices) to do something that takes nearly no effort, and I can damn well do myself. Who is so lazy at they can't get out of their comfy seat for 2 minutes?

mullingitover 13y ago
> I would rather not pay someone (in the form of higher gas prices) to do something that takes nearly no effort Then you'd be happy to know that in addition to having full service, Oregon's gas prices are ~$.40 per gallon cheaper than California's. Full service doesn't seem to be resulting in dramatically higher prices. > Who is so lazy at they can't get out of their comfy seat for 2 minutes? Who doesn't have better things to do with their time than inhale gasoline fumes?
- abcabc321321123 13y ago
  That is not a fair comparison. California's gas tax (including excise tax) is higher than Oregon. In addition, California requires a more expensive blend of gasoline. A better comparison would be to a state that has similar taxes and gasoline requirements. As a bonus, the availability of refineries is a significant factor in gasoline prices.
- smackfu 13y ago
  Same thing in NJ. And no one thinks prices would go down if they got rid of full service, so what would be the point?
- ericd 13y ago
  That additional cost is probably gas tax, so instead of going towards paying a group of people to waste their time doing something trivial, that money is going to pay for freeway maintenance, etc.
  - mullingitover 13y ago
    > That additional cost is probably gas tax California's gas tax is ~$.70 per gallon, Oregon is ~$.50. Now granted, California has roughly 3x the miles of roadway that Oregon has...[1] This probably explains why California's roads are atrociously bad and Oregon's are relatively pristine. [1] http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/ http://blog.cubitplanning.com/2010/02/road-miles-by-state/

crusso 13y ago

It's not about the convenience of staying in your car. It's about the cronyist/protectionist attitude of not letting different business models have an opportunity to serve consumers with various price and service mixes.

w1ntermute 13y ago

> Is this supposed to be a privilege, getting out of the car in potentially inclement weather and messing around with flammable liquids? Way to be hyperbolic. Why not let the customer decide whether or not they want to do it themselves, rather than choosing what's best for them? And surprise, surprise: in the 48 states where customers are free to choose, they overwhelmingly choose to pump their own gas.

chris_mahan 13y ago

The weather in California is rarely, if ever, inclement enough to make it a bother to get out of the car to pump gas. Most of the time it's quite pleasant, as you get 45 seconds to take in the clear blue sky, starry night, or gorgeous sunset.

ajcarpy2005 13y ago

Weird, I live in IA. I've never heard that there are states where gas cannot be pumped by the customer. Weather? All gas stations I've seen have an open pavilion/roof over all of the pumps. Flammable liquids? Unless you are smoking while pumping your gas, there's a pretty low risk of explosion or fire. There are cases of static electricity igniting the gas but that's rare. Normally the non-conductive handle protects against that very well. It seems that it would actually be less convenient to have to wait for an attendant, especially when the station is busy. Unlike service from behind the checkout counter, the attendant must walk around to each car...at least twice I'm assuming...to start and stop the fuel? I'm not familiar with it.

darksim905 13y ago

If you lived here you'd understand. NJ people are just like NY they have no time to get out of their car & deal with that bull, especially with bad weather an entire season. We also have the refineries here & we get cheaper gas almost always as a result. It's been challenged MANY times but the damn GOP old folks don't want to get it go.