4 ms·

bandwidth caps here are killer I remain amazed that no ad-hoc network solutions are available. Every wireless device & router should provide at least some off-

bandwidth caps here are killer I remain amazed that no ad-hoc network solutions are available. Every wireless device & router should provide at least some off-official-network connectivity. It's not even a hardware problem. Over time, enough overlap should provide a pretty good alternate network service with no caps on bandwidth or content, giving incentive for providing bridges and "unapproved" services. Certainly would have its issues, but would provide more options with almost zero cost.

Locke1689 13y ago
I have no idea what kind of network you are suggesting.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  Every wireless-network device is capable of connecting directly to other wireless devices rather than (or in addition to) just connecting to a router/hub. Imagine every wireless device recursively within range of your device (connected to yours, or connected to another device connected to yours, or ...), all capable of forming an ad-hoc network operating independently of the routers/cell-towers/etc normally used, a wireless network bridging all censorship/control boundaries, operating for free, no way to shut it all down. Insofar as there are limits to its extent, some people would provide gateway points to Internet backbones.
  - Locke1689 13y ago
    I think you're missing about 4 layers of the OSI stack.
    - ctdonath 13y ago
      Pardon my lack of encyclopedic thoroughness in a casual discussion.
      - Locke1689 13y ago
        And I think you're significantly underplaying the technical and financial challenges associated with scaling up a mesh network.
        ctdonath 13y ago
        I've watched networking scale from spending 9 hours downloading a book over 110bps (yes, that's one hundred ten bits per second) dialup as an amazing ability, to streaming multiple live HD video from anywhere to wireless devices at 17Mbps (contrast seventeen million bits per second) as a cultural norm. I do not doubt the ability to solve technical and financial challenges associated with scaling up an ad-hoc network. Been there, done that, can do it again.
- sciurus 13y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_network
tbrownaw 13y ago
Yes, I'm sure ad-hoc mesh wifi is an excellent solution to limited across-the-ocean bandwidth.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  It is a solution to monthly data caps, enabling solutions like Popcorn Time. As has been noted, if infrastructure exists to facilitate questionable solutions, then use-case pressures arise to persuade better solutions to larger problems. If people have enough bandwidth to serve their video-streaming interests, some solution will appear, persuading both local data infrastructure improvements and, say, Netflix warehousing data in NZ for more efficient use of across-the-ocean bandwidth. And speaking of across-the-ocean bandwidth: don't underestimate the bps of a freighter stuffed to the gills with MicroSD cards. https://xkcd.com/691/ https://xkcd.com/691/
  - xg15 13y ago
    The bandwidth is impressive. The latency... not so...
- seanodonnell 13y ago
  Everyone sharing everything they have downloaded in a giant cache via mesh networking? Yip, its a great solution. One person endures a slow download, all those who follow have a grand speedy old time.
- Crito 13y ago
  You don't necessarily need across-the-ocean bandwidth to facilitate NZ file sharing. Just adapt the "college dorm has a massive fileserver with pirated movies, so that movies only need to be downloaded from the internet at large once" model. I blow part of my monthly 'real across-the-ocean internet' limit downloading Night of the Living Dead from archive.org, then provide access to it for other New Zealanders using the hypothetical local mesh network.
  - Locke1689 13y ago
    So now you have a single home computer and a crappy 802.11 router serving the first week of House of Cards to everyone in New Zealand? Or, even worse, you have a BT net on the mesh which completely overloads whatever poor sap(s) happen(s) to be in the bridge in the graph? And we haven't even gotten to any of the other problems, like address assignment, routing, etc.

Locke1689 13y ago

I have no idea what kind of network you are suggesting.

ctdonath 13y ago
Every wireless-network device is capable of connecting directly to other wireless devices rather than (or in addition to) just connecting to a router/hub. Imagine every wireless device recursively within range of your device (connected to yours, or connected to another device connected to yours, or ...), all capable of forming an ad-hoc network operating independently of the routers/cell-towers/etc normally used, a wireless network bridging all censorship/control boundaries, operating for free, no way to shut it all down. Insofar as there are limits to its extent, some people would provide gateway points to Internet backbones.
- Locke1689 13y ago
  I think you're missing about 4 layers of the OSI stack.
  - ctdonath 13y ago
    Pardon my lack of encyclopedic thoroughness in a casual discussion.
    - Locke1689 13y ago
      And I think you're significantly underplaying the technical and financial challenges associated with scaling up a mesh network.
      - ctdonath 13y ago
        I've watched networking scale from spending 9 hours downloading a book over 110bps (yes, that's one hundred ten bits per second) dialup as an amazing ability, to streaming multiple live HD video from anywhere to wireless devices at 17Mbps (contrast seventeen million bits per second) as a cultural norm. I do not doubt the ability to solve technical and financial challenges associated with scaling up an ad-hoc network. Been there, done that, can do it again.
sciurus 13y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_network

tbrownaw 13y ago

Yes, I'm sure ad-hoc mesh wifi is an excellent solution to limited across-the-ocean bandwidth.

ctdonath 13y ago
It is a solution to monthly data caps, enabling solutions like Popcorn Time. As has been noted, if infrastructure exists to facilitate questionable solutions, then use-case pressures arise to persuade better solutions to larger problems. If people have enough bandwidth to serve their video-streaming interests, some solution will appear, persuading both local data infrastructure improvements and, say, Netflix warehousing data in NZ for more efficient use of across-the-ocean bandwidth. And speaking of across-the-ocean bandwidth: don't underestimate the bps of a freighter stuffed to the gills with MicroSD cards. https://xkcd.com/691/ https://xkcd.com/691/
- xg15 13y ago
  The bandwidth is impressive. The latency... not so...
seanodonnell 13y ago
Everyone sharing everything they have downloaded in a giant cache via mesh networking? Yip, its a great solution. One person endures a slow download, all those who follow have a grand speedy old time.
Crito 13y ago
You don't necessarily need across-the-ocean bandwidth to facilitate NZ file sharing. Just adapt the "college dorm has a massive fileserver with pirated movies, so that movies only need to be downloaded from the internet at large once" model. I blow part of my monthly 'real across-the-ocean internet' limit downloading Night of the Living Dead from archive.org, then provide access to it for other New Zealanders using the hypothetical local mesh network.
- Locke1689 13y ago
  So now you have a single home computer and a crappy 802.11 router serving the first week of House of Cards to everyone in New Zealand? Or, even worse, you have a BT net on the mesh which completely overloads whatever poor sap(s) happen(s) to be in the bridge in the graph? And we haven't even gotten to any of the other problems, like address assignment, routing, etc.