3 ms·

Congrats on the pay grade! but you need to look at averages not anomalies like yourself 300k is definitely not the tract most programmers are on

SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
>not anomalies like yourself Several people I know are in that range. But they all specialize in one thing or another.
- JayBlanton 13y ago
  Could you share some examples?
  - rschmitty 13y ago
    Would also be interested in some examples, just for curiosity sake. COBOL maybe? Wild guess at something specialized/scarce. Personally, the only people I know in the 200+ club are in some form of management and rarely, if ever, code anymore. But then we are back into the anecdotal realm..
    - SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
      Example specialties of people I know in the $250k+ range: * Machine learning + finance * iOS (I know several examples here) * Android * Enterprise Java * Embedded development * Specific scientific expertise (a friend is into optics and diffraction and makes $250/hour freelance, with some coding and some design) I don't know any COBOL programmers. Or at least if I do, they're in the closet. :) This is universally from big companies like Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Ball Aerospace, etc.
  - thrwy7372997 13y ago
    I'm a senior software engineer in the Bay Area and spend most of my days writing Javascript/Ruby. I don't manage anyone directly, but have technical/product leadership responsibility on my team. My gross comp is ~$350k, 60% cash. The 3 main learnings that I've leveraged to get that high are: 0) be the top performer on your team, no excuses 1) ask very explicitly for the things you want [0] 2) negotiate from a position of power (have a BATNA [1]) --- [0] "I'd like a raise" != "I'd like my salary to be $X" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiate...
- djur 13y ago
  In the Bay Area or New York?
SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
Actually, I hear LOTS of reports of people with $100-$140k salaries who receive signing bonuses close to their salaries. To the point where it seems like the "new standard." No, you don't see this in start-ups. I think HN may skew toward people who usually work in start-ups, so the perceived average will be lower as a result. Until this recent offer, it was my perception as well. And no, that's not quite my pay grade, but a lot higher than the plateau that I think people are imagining. I think some developers do get sick of the programming, or they stop learning and go stale, before they get to be an anomaly like me. ;)
- brianbarker 13y ago
  I kick ass. Where do I sign?
  - qstyk 13y ago
    On the dotted line, of course.
- grmarcil 13y ago
  Where exactly are developers reporting six-figure signing bonuses? Google, Amazon, FB, etc I assume? Also, making $150k with a $150k signing bonus is not anywhere close to 'making $300k'. What do you earn in year 2? $150k (plus whatever raise and annual bonus, but annual bonuses don't typically make up a huge part of your annual income in software, as they do in finance).
  - SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
    >What do you earn in year 2? Almost the same in cash, but a little more in stock grants. Years 3 and 4 have a lower salary but much larger stock grant vesting, that at today's stock price mean that I'd be making roughly the same amount in each year. If their stock crashes, then I might leave, though they mentioned that after the second year they may up the stock grants for the following years. And if their stock keeps going up (as it has been), then I would be getting a de facto raise in years 3-4. But I'm fine with the first 2 years; my personal burn rate is low, and it would let me work on personal projects full time again after the two years are up.
quaffapint 13y ago
Agreed - Around here @100K is higher than most. It all depends on your geography. I would live like a king with 300K!
- ogreyonder 13y ago
  I wouldn't... I would live like a miser for 2-3 years and retire to do whatever I wanted. Maybe 4 if I felt like travelling the world for a decade. :)
  - danesparza 13y ago
    You sir, are smart.
- robmcm 13y ago
  It would be relative. The ideal is to work somewhere that pays top whack, save, then move to somewhere with lower average incomes. Tricky to do though.
- quaffapint 13y ago
  Ok, let me change 'would' to 'could'. I'm way too frugal (my kids call it cheap) to waste.

SomeCallMeTim 13y ago

>not anomalies like yourself Several people I know are in that range. But they all specialize in one thing or another.

JayBlanton 13y ago
Could you share some examples?
- rschmitty 13y ago
  Would also be interested in some examples, just for curiosity sake. COBOL maybe? Wild guess at something specialized/scarce. Personally, the only people I know in the 200+ club are in some form of management and rarely, if ever, code anymore. But then we are back into the anecdotal realm..
  - SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
    Example specialties of people I know in the $250k+ range: * Machine learning + finance * iOS (I know several examples here) * Android * Enterprise Java * Embedded development * Specific scientific expertise (a friend is into optics and diffraction and makes $250/hour freelance, with some coding and some design) I don't know any COBOL programmers. Or at least if I do, they're in the closet. :) This is universally from big companies like Google, Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Ball Aerospace, etc.
- thrwy7372997 13y ago
  I'm a senior software engineer in the Bay Area and spend most of my days writing Javascript/Ruby. I don't manage anyone directly, but have technical/product leadership responsibility on my team. My gross comp is ~$350k, 60% cash. The 3 main learnings that I've leveraged to get that high are: 0) be the top performer on your team, no excuses 1) ask very explicitly for the things you want [0] 2) negotiate from a position of power (have a BATNA [1]) --- [0] "I'd like a raise" != "I'd like my salary to be $X" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiate...
djur 13y ago
In the Bay Area or New York?

SomeCallMeTim 13y ago

Actually, I hear LOTS of reports of people with $100-$140k salaries who receive signing bonuses close to their salaries. To the point where it seems like the "new standard." No, you don't see this in start-ups. I think HN may skew toward people who usually work in start-ups, so the perceived average will be lower as a result. Until this recent offer, it was my perception as well. And no, that's not quite my pay grade, but a lot higher than the plateau that I think people are imagining. I think some developers do get sick of the programming, or they stop learning and go stale, before they get to be an anomaly like me. ;)

brianbarker 13y ago
I kick ass. Where do I sign?
- qstyk 13y ago
  On the dotted line, of course.
grmarcil 13y ago
Where exactly are developers reporting six-figure signing bonuses? Google, Amazon, FB, etc I assume? Also, making $150k with a $150k signing bonus is not anywhere close to 'making $300k'. What do you earn in year 2? $150k (plus whatever raise and annual bonus, but annual bonuses don't typically make up a huge part of your annual income in software, as they do in finance).
- SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
  >What do you earn in year 2? Almost the same in cash, but a little more in stock grants. Years 3 and 4 have a lower salary but much larger stock grant vesting, that at today's stock price mean that I'd be making roughly the same amount in each year. If their stock crashes, then I might leave, though they mentioned that after the second year they may up the stock grants for the following years. And if their stock keeps going up (as it has been), then I would be getting a de facto raise in years 3-4. But I'm fine with the first 2 years; my personal burn rate is low, and it would let me work on personal projects full time again after the two years are up.

quaffapint 13y ago

Agreed - Around here @100K is higher than most. It all depends on your geography. I would live like a king with 300K!

ogreyonder 13y ago
I wouldn't... I would live like a miser for 2-3 years and retire to do whatever I wanted. Maybe 4 if I felt like travelling the world for a decade. :)
- danesparza 13y ago
  You sir, are smart.
robmcm 13y ago
It would be relative. The ideal is to work somewhere that pays top whack, save, then move to somewhere with lower average incomes. Tricky to do though.
quaffapint 13y ago
Ok, let me change 'would' to 'could'. I'm way too frugal (my kids call it cheap) to waste.