4 ms·

I could almost replace "beer" and "brewery" with "food" and "restaurant" and feel like it would be talking about the same thing. My restaurant ends up focusing

I could almost replace "beer" and "brewery" with "food" and "restaurant" and feel like it would be talking about the same thing. My restaurant ends up focusing so much more on keeping up with cleaning, food safety, and local regulations than actual cooking food it feels almost silly. And most people only want to hear about food or money (lol, money) when they ask me about how the restaurant's doing. I hope I don't accidentally convince someone that they should look into running one.

angersock 13y ago
You know the easiest way to make a small fortune running a restaurant? Start with a big one.
- silencio 13y ago
  Start with one, period, do a truckload of due diligence and then add another truckload before the sale closes, and then cross your fingers and hope that your employees don't burn the place down. ;) Starting a restaurant from scratch is something I don't want to wish on even my worst enemy. It's very, very difficult and time consuming to the point that I will try my best to talk people out of it if they even think about it. I know 3-4 talented chefs that almost went bankrupt trying to open their own restaurant instead of just buying one and remodeling/revamping it. Big ones can be iffy, they'll all but guarantee you some kind of (positive) cash flow but a lot of them sink so much money into necessary wages that I definitely recall wondering why the fuck anyone would think I would spend $1+ million to buy a wildly popular business that gives me all of $10k/month back before I can pay off any business loans. I seem to recall the broker trying to sell that particular one to me with "you can take the place of a few employees because owner/managers tend to work way harder and save like another $10k+!"....sure, if I wanted to work my ass off from 7am to 1am every single day?
  - cdcarter 13y ago
    I believe angersock meant start with a big fortune.
    - csixty4 13y ago
      It's like the joke "How do you make $1000 fast? Well, you start with $1,000,000…"
      - huherto 13y ago
        Another version. "How do you become a millionaire? Start as a billionaire and buy and airline"
    - silencio 13y ago
      oh god I get it now. That's what I get for idling on HN between dealing with misbehaving employees and hiring new misbehaving employees on the one day this week I deal with the restaurant tl;dr basically. if you're lucky not to lose it altogether. :(
  - greedo 13y ago
    Same with the franchise restaurant biz. In another life, I was in a position to get a franchise from the Golden Arches. The restrictions were amazing. You'd have to come up with X dollars, and be willing to relocate. Profit after controllables was typically 10-14%, and after that you'd have to pay franchise fees! and then taxes. So on a million/year in sales, you'd have 100k less a franchise fee and taxes. Not exactly driving a Beemer... And each franchise sold for multiple millions unless you were in a program that focused on leasing the facilities to up and coming store managers.
chrisgd 13y ago
Now I really don't know what to say to my brother in law who is opening a brewery / restaurant...
- smackfu 13y ago
  Yeah, I like brewpubs as a customer, but I don't see what the business model is, over just running a brewery or a bar. You get the beer at cost, but the price of a keg of beer is not really a problem most bars feel the need to improve upon.
  - dmm 13y ago
    My understanding is that the business model of the brewpub is to sell beer at retail prices as opposed to selling at wholesale to a distributor. I would guess that the bigger margins would allow you to start at a smaller scale.
  - cc439 13y ago
    Brewpubs can skirt around the regulatory insanity that some states impose on breweries. I'm not sure how close South Carolina is to the norm but you cannot sell more than 48oz of beer to the public per day and only after a tour (and only 16oz can be over 8% abv). You have to sell to an independent distributor who sells to independent (of both distributor and brewery) stores. If you operate a brewpub you can sell "freely" but only up to 2,000 (IIRC) barrels a year. I know several states have tough regulatory environment but I don't know if they go as far.
    - lostlogin 13y ago
      I wonder what defines a brew pub. Could you have a couple under the same roof owned by the same person? "This tap belongs to pub A, this to pub B..."
      - cc439 13y ago
        That could be a loophole, here's the relevant legislation: SECTION 61-4-1700. Definitions. For purposes of this article: (1) "Brewpub" means a tavern, public house, restaurant, or hotel which produces on the permitted premises a maximum of two thousand barrels a year of beer for sale on the premises. (2) "Permitted premises" means those areas normally used by the permittee or licensee to conduct his business and includes, but is not limited to, the selling areas, brewing areas, storage areas, food preparation areas, and parking areas. (3) "Person" means an individual, partnership, corporation, or other form of business organization. HISTORY: 1996 Act No. 415, Section 1. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t61c004.php http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t61c004.php
brc 13y ago
Do you think the regulations are over-the-top, or are they reasonably balanced? It sounds like you spend all your time satisfying regulations, and actually providing the product falls far down the list. In your opinion, could the regulatory burden be lifted and still produce a safe product, or are they all necessary?

angersock 13y ago

You know the easiest way to make a small fortune running a restaurant? Start with a big one.

silencio 13y ago
Start with one, period, do a truckload of due diligence and then add another truckload before the sale closes, and then cross your fingers and hope that your employees don't burn the place down. ;) Starting a restaurant from scratch is something I don't want to wish on even my worst enemy. It's very, very difficult and time consuming to the point that I will try my best to talk people out of it if they even think about it. I know 3-4 talented chefs that almost went bankrupt trying to open their own restaurant instead of just buying one and remodeling/revamping it. Big ones can be iffy, they'll all but guarantee you some kind of (positive) cash flow but a lot of them sink so much money into necessary wages that I definitely recall wondering why the fuck anyone would think I would spend $1+ million to buy a wildly popular business that gives me all of $10k/month back before I can pay off any business loans. I seem to recall the broker trying to sell that particular one to me with "you can take the place of a few employees because owner/managers tend to work way harder and save like another $10k+!"....sure, if I wanted to work my ass off from 7am to 1am every single day?
- cdcarter 13y ago
  I believe angersock meant start with a big fortune.
  - csixty4 13y ago
    It's like the joke "How do you make $1000 fast? Well, you start with $1,000,000…"
    - huherto 13y ago
      Another version. "How do you become a millionaire? Start as a billionaire and buy and airline"
  - silencio 13y ago
    oh god I get it now. That's what I get for idling on HN between dealing with misbehaving employees and hiring new misbehaving employees on the one day this week I deal with the restaurant tl;dr basically. if you're lucky not to lose it altogether. :(
- greedo 13y ago
  Same with the franchise restaurant biz. In another life, I was in a position to get a franchise from the Golden Arches. The restrictions were amazing. You'd have to come up with X dollars, and be willing to relocate. Profit after controllables was typically 10-14%, and after that you'd have to pay franchise fees! and then taxes. So on a million/year in sales, you'd have 100k less a franchise fee and taxes. Not exactly driving a Beemer... And each franchise sold for multiple millions unless you were in a program that focused on leasing the facilities to up and coming store managers.

chrisgd 13y ago

Now I really don't know what to say to my brother in law who is opening a brewery / restaurant...

smackfu 13y ago
Yeah, I like brewpubs as a customer, but I don't see what the business model is, over just running a brewery or a bar. You get the beer at cost, but the price of a keg of beer is not really a problem most bars feel the need to improve upon.
- dmm 13y ago
  My understanding is that the business model of the brewpub is to sell beer at retail prices as opposed to selling at wholesale to a distributor. I would guess that the bigger margins would allow you to start at a smaller scale.
- cc439 13y ago
  Brewpubs can skirt around the regulatory insanity that some states impose on breweries. I'm not sure how close South Carolina is to the norm but you cannot sell more than 48oz of beer to the public per day and only after a tour (and only 16oz can be over 8% abv). You have to sell to an independent distributor who sells to independent (of both distributor and brewery) stores. If you operate a brewpub you can sell "freely" but only up to 2,000 (IIRC) barrels a year. I know several states have tough regulatory environment but I don't know if they go as far.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    I wonder what defines a brew pub. Could you have a couple under the same roof owned by the same person? "This tap belongs to pub A, this to pub B..."
    - cc439 13y ago
      That could be a loophole, here's the relevant legislation: SECTION 61-4-1700. Definitions. For purposes of this article: (1) "Brewpub" means a tavern, public house, restaurant, or hotel which produces on the permitted premises a maximum of two thousand barrels a year of beer for sale on the premises. (2) "Permitted premises" means those areas normally used by the permittee or licensee to conduct his business and includes, but is not limited to, the selling areas, brewing areas, storage areas, food preparation areas, and parking areas. (3) "Person" means an individual, partnership, corporation, or other form of business organization. HISTORY: 1996 Act No. 415, Section 1. http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t61c004.php http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t61c004.php

brc 13y ago

Do you think the regulations are over-the-top, or are they reasonably balanced? It sounds like you spend all your time satisfying regulations, and actually providing the product falls far down the list. In your opinion, could the regulatory burden be lifted and still produce a safe product, or are they all necessary?