4 ms·

"The ability to write code for embedded systems using interpreted languages is a major development. These cheap processors are only as useful as the software th

"The ability to write code for embedded systems using interpreted languages is a major development. These cheap processors are only as useful as the software that runs them" ^ While true in a sense, I think its incredibly important not to downplay the difficulty of engineering this hardware in the first place. This type of sentence stinks of programmer elitism. Otherwise, I'd agree that perhaps the biggest obstacle to using these embedded systems is circuit building education. Running linux or some bit of code on these systems is cool, but only to a point. I've always found this type of work to be most interesting when you can make the system interact with the world.

stevenleeg 13y ago
Ahh I totally see how that could be taken that way. Don't get me wrong, the Raspberry Pi, Parallella, etc. are all incredibly feats of engineering (I couldn't even dream of building the processors or chips behind them). What I meant was the processors are only as useful to hackers as the software that they create for them. Hopefully that sounds a bit less elitist!
cushychicken 13y ago
>I think its incredibly important not to downplay the difficulty of engineering this hardware in the first place. Yeah, nobody is ever going to be able to make a SoC in their garage. But I think the OP is trying to illustrate the fact that engineering efforts like RPi/Arduino are becoming easier now due to the internet and open source tools. That, combined with the market forces driving down the cost of the ICs, is making it possible to engineer a platform as complicated as a fully functional computer by a group other than a large, well-funded corporation. The barrier to entry, while still high, is lower now than it's ever been.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  nobody is ever going to be able to make a SoC in their garage. That sounds like a challenge! Hah, I kid. It's probably possible, but expensive as always. You would have to work in an antique process node, and relax your idea of what is supposed to be on an SoC.
  - cushychicken 13y ago
    > It's probably possible, but expensive as always. Frankly, I doubt anyone but a rich eccentric would have the money to get into SoC design in their garage. My university acquired the resources to run a semiconductor class in the form of some antique (70s vintage) silicon lab equipment from Micron. Even though this stuff was brand new before I was born, Micron charged them in the neighborhood of $200k for each device. That's six machines for a total of $1.2 million. And that doesn't even encompass the whole cost of what you'd need to get a proper semiconductor development environment - you'd still need a cleanroom, electrical and gas hookups, chemical certification (you need all sorts of nasty stuff to make semiconductors - HF in particular is quite common in fabrication, and has horrifying effects on exposed skin when mishandled), etc. Yeah, sorry - with all respect, I don't think anyone's gonna be starting a semiconductor company in their garage any time soon.

stevenleeg 13y ago

Ahh I totally see how that could be taken that way. Don't get me wrong, the Raspberry Pi, Parallella, etc. are all incredibly feats of engineering (I couldn't even dream of building the processors or chips behind them). What I meant was the processors are only as useful to hackers as the software that they create for them. Hopefully that sounds a bit less elitist!

cushychicken 13y ago

>I think its incredibly important not to downplay the difficulty of engineering this hardware in the first place. Yeah, nobody is ever going to be able to make a SoC in their garage. But I think the OP is trying to illustrate the fact that engineering efforts like RPi/Arduino are becoming easier now due to the internet and open source tools. That, combined with the market forces driving down the cost of the ICs, is making it possible to engineer a platform as complicated as a fully functional computer by a group other than a large, well-funded corporation. The barrier to entry, while still high, is lower now than it's ever been.

sliverstorm 13y ago
nobody is ever going to be able to make a SoC in their garage. That sounds like a challenge! Hah, I kid. It's probably possible, but expensive as always. You would have to work in an antique process node, and relax your idea of what is supposed to be on an SoC.
- cushychicken 13y ago
  > It's probably possible, but expensive as always. Frankly, I doubt anyone but a rich eccentric would have the money to get into SoC design in their garage. My university acquired the resources to run a semiconductor class in the form of some antique (70s vintage) silicon lab equipment from Micron. Even though this stuff was brand new before I was born, Micron charged them in the neighborhood of $200k for each device. That's six machines for a total of $1.2 million. And that doesn't even encompass the whole cost of what you'd need to get a proper semiconductor development environment - you'd still need a cleanroom, electrical and gas hookups, chemical certification (you need all sorts of nasty stuff to make semiconductors - HF in particular is quite common in fabrication, and has horrifying effects on exposed skin when mishandled), etc. Yeah, sorry - with all respect, I don't think anyone's gonna be starting a semiconductor company in their garage any time soon.