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One wonders how democracy and modernization became part of the Afghan project. Had the US stuck to its goal of vanquishing Al Qaeda whilst merely deposing the T

One wonders how democracy and modernization became part of the Afghan project. Had the US stuck to its goal of vanquishing Al Qaeda whilst merely deposing the Taliban, things would be different. The world is a big place, and we rich westerners are not omniscient. Why Afghanistan needs democracy I will never understand, and why the US must bring it there puzzles me further. Let it be a Pashtun Sharia state. So long as the bastards running it do not provide a safe haven to those plotting harm to the US and friends, all is well. It's a simple rule for leaders of any ideology to follow - and most importantly the drone fleets provide strong incentive for them to comply. George Bush forgot that the only reason for the NATO invasion in the first place was that the Taliban refused to turn Bin Laden & Co over to him.

jotm 13y ago
Afghanistan has vast reserves of minerals, including valuable rare earth metals and oil. With a friendly (whether democratic or not) government they could be mined efficiently, supplying the world and making Afghanistan rich at the same time. Like it happened with UAE. I don't understand why the locals would not want that. We're gonna get there sooner or later, anyway... Plus there's the issue of Afghanistan supplying opium to the world, but that doesn't concern the US with Mexico next door.
- hartator 13y ago
  UAE is not really a democracy. I think that's a issue. Only a few people are made rich by the exploitation of oil. And they aren't entrepreneurs. They use foreign companies to bring them money and that's not faire. Like because they manage to exploit people, we should give this local kings money and power? I can see why nothing is better than that.
rdl 13y ago
Yes. I would have killed the drug war, at least within Afghanistan (if you don't legalize, you can still buy all their heroin at field price and turn it into medical opiates or just destroy it), as well as splitting AQ off from the Taliban ("anyone who wants to leave must be allowed to do so"), and trying to have some minimal restrictions on the Taliban while letting them continue to rule. This probably would have been mutually acceptable. The other option would have been funding the CIA Northern Alliance program 2001-2002 and letting JSOC play, but keeping conventional forces out (i.e. not letting the Marines take KAF for Christmas, etc.), and having a few years of civil war where the NA took over the country and killed a whole lot of Taliban with no real difference.
jmnicolas 13y ago
> Why Afghanistan needs democracy I will never understand, and why the US must bring it there puzzles me further. Because democracy is the Trojan horse of the American imperialism. I understand Americans don't like to see it that way, they'd rather think of themselves as good people and they are. But their elites are bloodthirsty bastards bent on conquering the world. Look at the cold hard facts about American military "presence" in the world and tell me it doesn't look like an empire occupying its conquests ...
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  Try this instead, for just one place to start from concerning the question of why it might be a good idea to spread democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  South Korea, Japan, France, Germany - all occupied by American Imperialism and slaving away under its exploitative boot heel to this day! Truly there has been no crueler empire in history.
  - camus2 13y ago
    Afghanistan,Iraq,Lybia, clearly successfull democracies !
  - jmnicolas 13y ago
    No, cruelty is reserved for unwilling countries (Irak, Afghanistan ...). The good, obedient states are rewarded and shown as examples as you do in your comment (I'm French btw). edit : maybe it's not apparent in my comments, but I have nothing against Americans (or any other people for that matter). I criticize the elites, not the "normal" people.
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      And what was South Korea "willing" to do?

jotm 13y ago

Afghanistan has vast reserves of minerals, including valuable rare earth metals and oil. With a friendly (whether democratic or not) government they could be mined efficiently, supplying the world and making Afghanistan rich at the same time. Like it happened with UAE. I don't understand why the locals would not want that. We're gonna get there sooner or later, anyway... Plus there's the issue of Afghanistan supplying opium to the world, but that doesn't concern the US with Mexico next door.

hartator 13y ago
UAE is not really a democracy. I think that's a issue. Only a few people are made rich by the exploitation of oil. And they aren't entrepreneurs. They use foreign companies to bring them money and that's not faire. Like because they manage to exploit people, we should give this local kings money and power? I can see why nothing is better than that.

rdl 13y ago

Yes. I would have killed the drug war, at least within Afghanistan (if you don't legalize, you can still buy all their heroin at field price and turn it into medical opiates or just destroy it), as well as splitting AQ off from the Taliban ("anyone who wants to leave must be allowed to do so"), and trying to have some minimal restrictions on the Taliban while letting them continue to rule. This probably would have been mutually acceptable. The other option would have been funding the CIA Northern Alliance program 2001-2002 and letting JSOC play, but keeping conventional forces out (i.e. not letting the Marines take KAF for Christmas, etc.), and having a few years of civil war where the NA took over the country and killed a whole lot of Taliban with no real difference.

jmnicolas 13y ago

> Why Afghanistan needs democracy I will never understand, and why the US must bring it there puzzles me further. Because democracy is the Trojan horse of the American imperialism. I understand Americans don't like to see it that way, they'd rather think of themselves as good people and they are. But their elites are bloodthirsty bastards bent on conquering the world. Look at the cold hard facts about American military "presence" in the world and tell me it doesn't look like an empire occupying its conquests ...

jessedhillon 13y ago
Try this instead, for just one place to start from concerning the question of why it might be a good idea to spread democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory
alexeisadeski3 13y ago
South Korea, Japan, France, Germany - all occupied by American Imperialism and slaving away under its exploitative boot heel to this day! Truly there has been no crueler empire in history.
- camus2 13y ago
  Afghanistan,Iraq,Lybia, clearly successfull democracies !
- jmnicolas 13y ago
  No, cruelty is reserved for unwilling countries (Irak, Afghanistan ...). The good, obedient states are rewarded and shown as examples as you do in your comment (I'm French btw). edit : maybe it's not apparent in my comments, but I have nothing against Americans (or any other people for that matter). I criticize the elites, not the "normal" people.
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    And what was South Korea "willing" to do?