5 ms·

How about making the paying Amtrak experience nice instead of making a Potemkin ride? (see: http://reason.com/archives/2005/12/01/amtrak-sucks http://reason.com

by jmount 13y ago

How about making the paying Amtrak experience nice instead of making a Potemkin ride? (see: http://reason.com/archives/2005/12/01/amtrak-sucks http://reason.com/archives/2005/12/01/amtrak-sucks )

rayiner 13y ago
Wow, did Amtrak knock up that guy's teenage sister or what? As someone who has taken train/plane/bus/car between NYC and DC the last couple of years, I can say without a doubt that Amtrak is the most civilized way to get between those two places. If I didn't have family in Oregon I'd never get on a plane again.
- jmount 13y ago
  I am guessing the NYC/DC train corridor is nicer than what we have on the west coast. I was looking into a holiday ride through silver country here, and the reviews unfortunately came back a big "heck no."
  - LoganCale 13y ago
    I've done cross-country Amtrak travel multiple times and enjoyed it every time. You just have to be prepared for potential delays and willing to take it easy and roll with it. If you aren't in a hurry and see the trip as part of your vacation, then it's great.
    - 6cxs2hd6 13y ago
      Exactly. Sometimes the mindset is to get somewhere fast. What we really want? A teleport. But we have to settle for air travel. Whereas sometimes the mindset "the journey not the destination". That's when you can appreciate a train, ocean liner, bicycle, or feet. Having said that, Acela is usually the best of both worlds.
      - ghaff 13y ago
        And for Boston to New York, I really find it a lot more pleasant and almost as fast as flying--especially if you're going into Manhattan anyway. The only reason I'd fly to New York would be if I had a morning meeting and couldn't go down the night before for some reason. That said, you go much further than New York and the train makes less sense either in terms of time or money.
      - cscheid 13y ago
        I found the Acela north of New York (NY-Boston) to be great, but south of New York (NY-DC) my experience was a bone-rattling ride from hell. It was shaking so bad it threw my laptop off the table not once, but twice.
  - jamroom 13y ago
    I've taken the Coast Starlight trip 2 times and would do it again in a heartbeat (had a sleeper room both times) - there's some awesome scenery in southern Oregon and through northern California as it travels along the coast: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight I find train travel to be super relaxing - check it out sometime if you get a chance.
  - majormajor 13y ago
    Amtrak from San Diego to LA is quite pleasant, though I can't speak for other west coast routes.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    I've never taken the NYC/DC route (never had a need), but taking the California Zephyr and the Empire Builder have always been magnificent experiences for me. Absolutely beautiful, relaxed rides. Let that be a counteranecdote. My long distance travel has been exclusively by Amtrak for the past ten years. I live in Chicago, which is pretty central to the system - I might not have been so strict if I lived somewhere else.
  - ghaff 13y ago
    Boston to NYC or NYC to Washington are relatively short runs (under 4 hours or so) as well. And they're in a very populated corridor in which IMO the driving isn't very pleasant. (Plus they can take you downtown to downtown which is often an advantage.) Train gets a lot less interesting as an option as the distance increases. I have taken Amtrak from Boston to Washington and it's definitely doable but it's not really especially competitive with flying .
- smacktoward 13y ago
  It's in Reason, a libertarian magazine (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason_%28magazine%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason_%28magazine%29), so it's not surprising that it views Amtrak, which is funded by the government, as History's Greatest Monster. That being said, there is definitely a drop-off in quality of service on Amtrak between the Northeast Corridor (DC to Boston) and the routes covering the rest of the country. Because the Northeast Corridor is by far the most heavily traveled and profitable part of Amtrak's network (see http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/2013/amtrakroutes http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/2013/amtrakro...), it gets a level of service that other long-haul routes unfortunately do not.
  - hga 13y ago
    The superior service in the Northeast Corridor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor has a lot more to do with Amtrak and the like owning those rails, and optimizing most of it for passenger vs. freight traffic (the former prefers banked tracks in curves, the latter vertical rails for bearing weight).
  - philwelch 13y ago
    The Cascades line can be nice as well.
  - ghaff 13y ago
    It's pretty striking really. Amtrak makes a fair bit of money on the Northeast Corridor (and a couple of related routes) and then universally loses that money across the rest of the country, especially the long-haul routes like the California Zephyr. One of these days I'll have to take one of their long Western routes although I suspect that it's more romantic in theory than it is in practice.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      "Amtrak makes a fair bit of money on the Northeast Corridor (and a couple of related routes)" This claim was made in a WP article[1], but as this government report[2] points out, the accounting procedures used were flawed. To the point a Brookings Institute report[3] which reported in Slate[4] got the numbers wrong. Basically, it is only profitable if you do not count capital costs. 1) http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/amtrak-faces-congestion-and-criticism-as-it-celebrates-40-years-of-service/2011/04/28/AFOeNMqG_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/amtrak-faces-c... 2) http://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/dot/files/Amtrak's%20New%20Cost%20Accounting%20System%20Report%5E3-27-13.pdf http://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/dot/files/Amtrak's%20New%20Cost... 3) http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Reports/2013/03/01%20passenger%20rail%20puentes%20tomer/passenger%20rail%20puentes%20tomer.pdf http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Reports/2013... 4) http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/03/01/amtrak_profits_in_the_northeast_where_people_use_it_they_make_money.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/03/01/amtrak_profit...
- bodyfour 13y ago
  While I don't share the cartoonists political views, I can't blame him for the frustration. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight > In recent years the train acquired the nickname "Coast Starlate" because of its abysmal on-time record. From October 2005 through August 2006 it arrived on time only 2% of the time, often running 5 to 11 hours behind schedule. I've taken that line... it is beautiful (and provides an amazing view of Vandenberg AFB) but you've got to be in no hurry. The staff were amazed when we were "only" 6 hours behind schedule. Unfortunately for Amtrak the North-East corridor trains that you've experienced are the exception, not the rule.
  - unreal37 13y ago
    They should change the schedule. What's the point of having an impossible-to-meet schedule anyways? Sets unrealistic expectations and constantly disappoints passengers.
    - bodyfour 13y ago
      The problem isn't that they don't have enough time to get from point A to point B. The delays happen all over the line. Since the route has dozens of stops, and a multi-hour delay could happen between any of them, where do you put the slack in the schedule? It also didn't help that it took until 2013 to get GPS tracking on their fleet: http://blog.amtrak.com/2013/09/google-helps-track-a-train/ http://blog.amtrak.com/2013/09/google-helps-track-a-train/ I would have linked to the status page itself but it is, fittingly, down for maintenance today. Just knowing whether your train was running behind before going to the station wasn't available until recently.
  - morsch 13y ago
    That is a very long line, though -- 34 hours. 6 hours behind schedule is a lot in absolute terms, but it's only about 17%. I've often had 6 hour trips turn into 7 hour trips, in all modes of transportation. What it comes down to is that 34 hour trips are not something we are ready to put up with anymore, unless we somehow make the trip itself part of the goal, whether it's an "Amtrak Residency" or a long range road trip with the sights and the hotels. Having 3-5 shorts lines service the 34h/1400mi overall length makes more sense really. Maybe 5 7h lines during the day, and 3 11h overnighters. 7 to 8 hours is about as long as I'm willing to spend in a daytime train, and my previous experiences with 10 to 12 hour sleeper wagon trips have been pretty great, too. Any trips longer than that you can either spend a night in Sacramento or you have to take a plane or you just don't go and vote that the rail network gets improved beyond a pathetic 40 mph average.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  The comic seems a pretty accurate description of an unlucky, delayed train trip. It's how you would see it if you were an unbelievably self-centered whiner who despised people in general. I have no doubt that his train arrived 6 hours late, and that one of the crew couldn't pronounce Sauvignon Blanc. Not sure that it counts as a major tragedy. There should have been a warning on that link for people who remember Peter Bagge from 90s comics: "Yet another person that you were entertained by when you were young turns out to be a total prick, don't click if you don't want a piece of your childhood spoiled."
- thedufer 13y ago
  Amtrak's NE Corridor is wonderful (I also do the NYC<->DC regularly) but elsewhere its a lot worse. I also did DC<->Norfolk a lot, and that (a 4-5 hour ride) was often delayed 2-4 hours and sometimes as much as 24.
- dominotw 13y ago
  Yes I take amtrak every other weekend, i love it. No horrible and insulting security checks, so much leg room, decent toilets, power outlets, good air conditioning, food pantry that sells alcohol, polite staff. I dont get the hate. I love it.
duaneb 13y ago
Amtrak is by far the best experience. What would you prefer, Greyhound or Plane? Both are even more miserable.
- doyoulikeworms 13y ago
  Plane or (personal) car. The two more expensive options, unfortunately. I used to take a train from San Diego to Santa Barbara regularly during college. I probably road it 10 to 15 times. The train was often late, and twice EXTREMELY late. Once, I waited at the station over 8 hours. The train had broken down, and another train was sent to push it to the station. That train broke down too. On one trip, my train ran out of fuel. I didn't think this was even possible. We sat in dim emergency-level lighting in the blackness of night for 4 hours waiting for another train to come push us to the station. Otherwise, it's a great experience. Low price, smooth ride, electrical outlets, and cell phone signal. It takes longer than other modes of transportation (even when on time), but that's fine by me.
  - atarian 13y ago
    >Once, I waited at the station over 8 hours. The train had broken down, and another train was sent to push it to the station. That train broke down too. I was on that train; it was the day before Thanksgiving. It was the worst public transportation incident I had ever experienced. On top of the engine breaking down the electricity also went out, which prevented the air conditioners from running. With the large amount of people the trains were carrying, the heat grew to be too much and someone ended up fainting. So we had to wait about an hour for the ambulance to come by and revive the person. Once we reached the LA station, because we had two large trains coupled to each other, people couldn't get off because the platform wasn't large enough. So they had to back the train out, decouple some cars, and go back into the platform. This went on several times before everyone could get off.
sanoli 13y ago
Soviet-Style?? Really? I guess the meaning of calling something "soviet" has been watered down with the years. I also didn't get the "Potemkin" reference. I thought it meant something made just for show.

by jmount 13y ago

How about making the paying Amtrak experience nice instead of making a Potemkin ride? (see: http://reason.com/archives/2005/12/01/amtrak-sucks http://reason.com/archives/2005/12/01/amtrak-sucks )

rayiner 13y ago

Wow, did Amtrak knock up that guy's teenage sister or what? As someone who has taken train/plane/bus/car between NYC and DC the last couple of years, I can say without a doubt that Amtrak is the most civilized way to get between those two places. If I didn't have family in Oregon I'd never get on a plane again.

jmount 13y ago
I am guessing the NYC/DC train corridor is nicer than what we have on the west coast. I was looking into a holiday ride through silver country here, and the reviews unfortunately came back a big "heck no."
- LoganCale 13y ago
  I've done cross-country Amtrak travel multiple times and enjoyed it every time. You just have to be prepared for potential delays and willing to take it easy and roll with it. If you aren't in a hurry and see the trip as part of your vacation, then it's great.
  - 6cxs2hd6 13y ago
    Exactly. Sometimes the mindset is to get somewhere fast. What we really want? A teleport. But we have to settle for air travel. Whereas sometimes the mindset "the journey not the destination". That's when you can appreciate a train, ocean liner, bicycle, or feet. Having said that, Acela is usually the best of both worlds.
    - ghaff 13y ago
      And for Boston to New York, I really find it a lot more pleasant and almost as fast as flying--especially if you're going into Manhattan anyway. The only reason I'd fly to New York would be if I had a morning meeting and couldn't go down the night before for some reason. That said, you go much further than New York and the train makes less sense either in terms of time or money.
    - cscheid 13y ago
      I found the Acela north of New York (NY-Boston) to be great, but south of New York (NY-DC) my experience was a bone-rattling ride from hell. It was shaking so bad it threw my laptop off the table not once, but twice.
- jamroom 13y ago
  I've taken the Coast Starlight trip 2 times and would do it again in a heartbeat (had a sleeper room both times) - there's some awesome scenery in southern Oregon and through northern California as it travels along the coast: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight I find train travel to be super relaxing - check it out sometime if you get a chance.
- majormajor 13y ago
  Amtrak from San Diego to LA is quite pleasant, though I can't speak for other west coast routes.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  I've never taken the NYC/DC route (never had a need), but taking the California Zephyr and the Empire Builder have always been magnificent experiences for me. Absolutely beautiful, relaxed rides. Let that be a counteranecdote. My long distance travel has been exclusively by Amtrak for the past ten years. I live in Chicago, which is pretty central to the system - I might not have been so strict if I lived somewhere else.
- ghaff 13y ago
  Boston to NYC or NYC to Washington are relatively short runs (under 4 hours or so) as well. And they're in a very populated corridor in which IMO the driving isn't very pleasant. (Plus they can take you downtown to downtown which is often an advantage.) Train gets a lot less interesting as an option as the distance increases. I have taken Amtrak from Boston to Washington and it's definitely doable but it's not really especially competitive with flying .
smacktoward 13y ago
It's in Reason, a libertarian magazine (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason_%28magazine%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reason_%28magazine%29), so it's not surprising that it views Amtrak, which is funded by the government, as History's Greatest Monster. That being said, there is definitely a drop-off in quality of service on Amtrak between the Northeast Corridor (DC to Boston) and the routes covering the rest of the country. Because the Northeast Corridor is by far the most heavily traveled and profitable part of Amtrak's network (see http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/2013/amtrakroutes http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/2013/amtrakro...), it gets a level of service that other long-haul routes unfortunately do not.
- hga 13y ago
  The superior service in the Northeast Corridor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor has a lot more to do with Amtrak and the like owning those rails, and optimizing most of it for passenger vs. freight traffic (the former prefers banked tracks in curves, the latter vertical rails for bearing weight).
- philwelch 13y ago
  The Cascades line can be nice as well.
- ghaff 13y ago
  It's pretty striking really. Amtrak makes a fair bit of money on the Northeast Corridor (and a couple of related routes) and then universally loses that money across the rest of the country, especially the long-haul routes like the California Zephyr. One of these days I'll have to take one of their long Western routes although I suspect that it's more romantic in theory than it is in practice.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    "Amtrak makes a fair bit of money on the Northeast Corridor (and a couple of related routes)" This claim was made in a WP article[1], but as this government report[2] points out, the accounting procedures used were flawed. To the point a Brookings Institute report[3] which reported in Slate[4] got the numbers wrong. Basically, it is only profitable if you do not count capital costs. 1) http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/amtrak-faces-congestion-and-criticism-as-it-celebrates-40-years-of-service/2011/04/28/AFOeNMqG_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/commuting/amtrak-faces-c... 2) http://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/dot/files/Amtrak's%20New%20Cost%20Accounting%20System%20Report%5E3-27-13.pdf http://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/dot/files/Amtrak's%20New%20Cost... 3) http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Reports/2013/03/01%20passenger%20rail%20puentes%20tomer/passenger%20rail%20puentes%20tomer.pdf http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Reports/2013... 4) http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/03/01/amtrak_profits_in_the_northeast_where_people_use_it_they_make_money.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/03/01/amtrak_profit...
bodyfour 13y ago
While I don't share the cartoonists political views, I can't blame him for the frustration. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_Starlight > In recent years the train acquired the nickname "Coast Starlate" because of its abysmal on-time record. From October 2005 through August 2006 it arrived on time only 2% of the time, often running 5 to 11 hours behind schedule. I've taken that line... it is beautiful (and provides an amazing view of Vandenberg AFB) but you've got to be in no hurry. The staff were amazed when we were "only" 6 hours behind schedule. Unfortunately for Amtrak the North-East corridor trains that you've experienced are the exception, not the rule.
- unreal37 13y ago
  They should change the schedule. What's the point of having an impossible-to-meet schedule anyways? Sets unrealistic expectations and constantly disappoints passengers.
  - bodyfour 13y ago
    The problem isn't that they don't have enough time to get from point A to point B. The delays happen all over the line. Since the route has dozens of stops, and a multi-hour delay could happen between any of them, where do you put the slack in the schedule? It also didn't help that it took until 2013 to get GPS tracking on their fleet: http://blog.amtrak.com/2013/09/google-helps-track-a-train/ http://blog.amtrak.com/2013/09/google-helps-track-a-train/ I would have linked to the status page itself but it is, fittingly, down for maintenance today. Just knowing whether your train was running behind before going to the station wasn't available until recently.
- morsch 13y ago
  That is a very long line, though -- 34 hours. 6 hours behind schedule is a lot in absolute terms, but it's only about 17%. I've often had 6 hour trips turn into 7 hour trips, in all modes of transportation. What it comes down to is that 34 hour trips are not something we are ready to put up with anymore, unless we somehow make the trip itself part of the goal, whether it's an "Amtrak Residency" or a long range road trip with the sights and the hotels. Having 3-5 shorts lines service the 34h/1400mi overall length makes more sense really. Maybe 5 7h lines during the day, and 3 11h overnighters. 7 to 8 hours is about as long as I'm willing to spend in a daytime train, and my previous experiences with 10 to 12 hour sleeper wagon trips have been pretty great, too. Any trips longer than that you can either spend a night in Sacramento or you have to take a plane or you just don't go and vote that the rail network gets improved beyond a pathetic 40 mph average.
pessimizer 13y ago
The comic seems a pretty accurate description of an unlucky, delayed train trip. It's how you would see it if you were an unbelievably self-centered whiner who despised people in general. I have no doubt that his train arrived 6 hours late, and that one of the crew couldn't pronounce Sauvignon Blanc. Not sure that it counts as a major tragedy. There should have been a warning on that link for people who remember Peter Bagge from 90s comics: "Yet another person that you were entertained by when you were young turns out to be a total prick, don't click if you don't want a piece of your childhood spoiled."
thedufer 13y ago
Amtrak's NE Corridor is wonderful (I also do the NYC<->DC regularly) but elsewhere its a lot worse. I also did DC<->Norfolk a lot, and that (a 4-5 hour ride) was often delayed 2-4 hours and sometimes as much as 24.
dominotw 13y ago
Yes I take amtrak every other weekend, i love it. No horrible and insulting security checks, so much leg room, decent toilets, power outlets, good air conditioning, food pantry that sells alcohol, polite staff. I dont get the hate. I love it.

duaneb 13y ago

Amtrak is by far the best experience. What would you prefer, Greyhound or Plane? Both are even more miserable.

doyoulikeworms 13y ago
Plane or (personal) car. The two more expensive options, unfortunately. I used to take a train from San Diego to Santa Barbara regularly during college. I probably road it 10 to 15 times. The train was often late, and twice EXTREMELY late. Once, I waited at the station over 8 hours. The train had broken down, and another train was sent to push it to the station. That train broke down too. On one trip, my train ran out of fuel. I didn't think this was even possible. We sat in dim emergency-level lighting in the blackness of night for 4 hours waiting for another train to come push us to the station. Otherwise, it's a great experience. Low price, smooth ride, electrical outlets, and cell phone signal. It takes longer than other modes of transportation (even when on time), but that's fine by me.
- atarian 13y ago
  >Once, I waited at the station over 8 hours. The train had broken down, and another train was sent to push it to the station. That train broke down too. I was on that train; it was the day before Thanksgiving. It was the worst public transportation incident I had ever experienced. On top of the engine breaking down the electricity also went out, which prevented the air conditioners from running. With the large amount of people the trains were carrying, the heat grew to be too much and someone ended up fainting. So we had to wait about an hour for the ambulance to come by and revive the person. Once we reached the LA station, because we had two large trains coupled to each other, people couldn't get off because the platform wasn't large enough. So they had to back the train out, decouple some cars, and go back into the platform. This went on several times before everyone could get off.

sanoli 13y ago

Soviet-Style?? Really? I guess the meaning of calling something "soviet" has been watered down with the years. I also didn't get the "Potemkin" reference. I thought it meant something made just for show.