5 ms·

The main problem with a major change to the GUI like Windows 8 is that it destroys a vast investment people have made in learning how to use a PC. A lot of user

by b1daly 13y ago

The main problem with a major change to the GUI like Windows 8 is that it destroys a vast investment people have made in learning how to use a PC. A lot of user interface is comprised of arbitrary choices. It might be the case that a new way to do it (start screen vs start menu) is marginially better, but to be worth the change it really has to be significantly better, not just different. It's amazing that Windows 8 was released like this when it seems like a basic amount of user testing would show that people are not going to be happy about having to learn a new interface. Most people who work with PCs are actually using them to get work done, and are very pressed for time and energy. I'm sure it was very complicated in house, but from the outside it looks like management thought "if it's good for us, it must be good for the customer!"

joenathan 13y ago
I remember people complaining about GUIs, how CLIs were so much better and more powerful, how the mouse and cursor are so inefficient. When you change things people are used to, people are going to complain.
- userbinator 13y ago
  They still are for anything but graphical tasks (photo editing, drawing diagrams, etc.) E.g. what's the fastest way to get a sorted list of all the .jpg files in a directory?
  - mjhagen 13y ago
    Type .jpg in a search field in the Finder vs. google how to do that using grep I guess?
    - chinpokomon 13y ago
      Why would you use grep?
      - mjhagen 13y ago
        You tell me
    - userbinator 13y ago
      Now you want to get that list of files in a text file, so that you can email them to someone or put them in a document or etc.
- m_mueller 13y ago
  This kind of comment really annoys me. CLI: You need to memorize at least a basic set of commands. There is contextual help once you know those commands, but there is no help to find out which commands do what in the first place. Clearly intended for what we now call power users. Win9x/NT4+ GUI: All required operations are discoverable through reading what's on screen and going through the menus. No manual or googling required. Mac since OS1/.Net GUIs: Even better, hotkey commands can be discovered in the Menus -> users can learn how to become faster while just using the programs. OSX since 10.5: Any program on your HD, installed or not, and any operation within these programs can be discovered through system wide search, clearly indicated by the search symbol staying in the top right of your screen as well as the Help menu. Typing after clicking on Help will even point out the command's placement in the menu such that you can memorize for next time. Win8/Ubuntu: Trololo who needs discoverability - let's hide most of the functionality behind non trivial gestures (we heard people like them on Macs[1] so let's go all in on them) => the UI now has similar discoverability properties as a CLI - you need to read the manual or google a tutorial to get started. [1]Note: There is currently exactly one gesture that is really needed in the default settings on OSX (which I find a bad idea btw.): Two finger scrolling.
  - mjhagen 13y ago
    > Clearly intended for what we now call power users. You would think that, but in the DOS vs Mac days a lot of non-power users advocated the DOS way, I still don't know why though. A Mac is a toy, was the argument back then.
    - m_mueller 13y ago
      People who call Mac toys have probably never used one for a good amount of time. There are legitimate ways to criticize Macs - this is not one of them.
      - mjhagen 13y ago
        You did read my comment, didn't you? I was talking about the DOS days, as in 'not today'.
chongli 13y ago
It's amazing that Windows 8 was released like this when it seems like a basic amount of user testing would show that people are not going to be happy about having to learn a new interface. It's not that surprising when you consider all of the egos and politics going on at Microsoft during the run-up to release. A lot of these decisions were a matter of pride.
- tdicola 13y ago
  It's fascinating to me that they still keep the Building Windows 8 blog up: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ You can go back and read the justifications for all the features that are now being redone or pulled out in service packs. edit: This post in particular is great to look back on 3 years later: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-...

by b1daly 13y ago

joenathan 13y ago

I remember people complaining about GUIs, how CLIs were so much better and more powerful, how the mouse and cursor are so inefficient. When you change things people are used to, people are going to complain.

userbinator 13y ago
They still are for anything but graphical tasks (photo editing, drawing diagrams, etc.) E.g. what's the fastest way to get a sorted list of all the .jpg files in a directory?
- mjhagen 13y ago
  Type .jpg in a search field in the Finder vs. google how to do that using grep I guess?
  - chinpokomon 13y ago
    Why would you use grep?
    - mjhagen 13y ago
      You tell me
  - userbinator 13y ago
    Now you want to get that list of files in a text file, so that you can email them to someone or put them in a document or etc.
m_mueller 13y ago
This kind of comment really annoys me. CLI: You need to memorize at least a basic set of commands. There is contextual help once you know those commands, but there is no help to find out which commands do what in the first place. Clearly intended for what we now call power users. Win9x/NT4+ GUI: All required operations are discoverable through reading what's on screen and going through the menus. No manual or googling required. Mac since OS1/.Net GUIs: Even better, hotkey commands can be discovered in the Menus -> users can learn how to become faster while just using the programs. OSX since 10.5: Any program on your HD, installed or not, and any operation within these programs can be discovered through system wide search, clearly indicated by the search symbol staying in the top right of your screen as well as the Help menu. Typing after clicking on Help will even point out the command's placement in the menu such that you can memorize for next time. Win8/Ubuntu: Trololo who needs discoverability - let's hide most of the functionality behind non trivial gestures (we heard people like them on Macs[1] so let's go all in on them) => the UI now has similar discoverability properties as a CLI - you need to read the manual or google a tutorial to get started. [1]Note: There is currently exactly one gesture that is really needed in the default settings on OSX (which I find a bad idea btw.): Two finger scrolling.
- mjhagen 13y ago
  > Clearly intended for what we now call power users. You would think that, but in the DOS vs Mac days a lot of non-power users advocated the DOS way, I still don't know why though. A Mac is a toy, was the argument back then.
  - m_mueller 13y ago
    People who call Mac toys have probably never used one for a good amount of time. There are legitimate ways to criticize Macs - this is not one of them.
    - mjhagen 13y ago
      You did read my comment, didn't you? I was talking about the DOS days, as in 'not today'.

chongli 13y ago

It's amazing that Windows 8 was released like this when it seems like a basic amount of user testing would show that people are not going to be happy about having to learn a new interface. It's not that surprising when you consider all of the egos and politics going on at Microsoft during the run-up to release. A lot of these decisions were a matter of pride.

tdicola 13y ago
It's fascinating to me that they still keep the Building Windows 8 blog up: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ You can go back and read the justifications for all the features that are now being redone or pulled out in service packs. edit: This post in particular is great to look back on 3 years later: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-your-comments-on-the-start-screen.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/11/reflecting-on-...