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Socrates was just pretty conservative, he was also against the idea of writing: " ...this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls,

by mappum 13y ago

Socrates was just pretty conservative, he was also against the idea of writing: " ...this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality."

leephillips 13y ago
"they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing" Does this describe me, with Google at my fingertips? I hope not.
- icelancer 13y ago
  I believe it describes a great number of people.
neuralk 13y ago
In some sense, he is right. With writing, people did not develop memories as powerful as they did when traditions were oral -- there was no need. How many people can recite epic poems or plays from memory, let alone the Odyssey? Extremely few could these days, relatively few could 1000 years ago, and many more could 2000+ years ago. And you can bet that those who developed powerful memories in the time of Socrates would be among the most wise and cultured, so his complaint is not an unreasonable one to make. Besides, Socrates was perennially the devil's advocate and its not impossible if you had caught him on a different day he would've argued the opposite case. Taking it further, his quote applies equally to the advent of the internet, especially search engines. Many people outsource their memory to Google -- they will even look up things on their phone in the middle of a conversation because they've forgotten its name.
- skybrian 13y ago
  Here's a really great SF story about the effects of technology on memory (ancient and modern): http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2013/the_truth_of_fact_the_truth_of_feeling_by_ted_chiang http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2013/the_truth_of...
- hifigi 13y ago
  In the words of Henry Jones Sr. "I wrote it down so I wouldn't have to remember." Rote memory is fallible, fleeting and failing (in that order). Memorizing epic poetry is a noble cause, but even Plato would prefer to use those mental resources for applications more pertinent to a greater understanding of our physical reality. This sentiment accounts for the rapid transition to physically-recorded data, which everyone seems to agree was a general step in the right direction.

by mappum 13y ago

leephillips 13y ago

"they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing" Does this describe me, with Google at my fingertips? I hope not.

icelancer 13y ago
I believe it describes a great number of people.

neuralk 13y ago

In some sense, he is right. With writing, people did not develop memories as powerful as they did when traditions were oral -- there was no need. How many people can recite epic poems or plays from memory, let alone the Odyssey? Extremely few could these days, relatively few could 1000 years ago, and many more could 2000+ years ago. And you can bet that those who developed powerful memories in the time of Socrates would be among the most wise and cultured, so his complaint is not an unreasonable one to make. Besides, Socrates was perennially the devil's advocate and its not impossible if you had caught him on a different day he would've argued the opposite case. Taking it further, his quote applies equally to the advent of the internet, especially search engines. Many people outsource their memory to Google -- they will even look up things on their phone in the middle of a conversation because they've forgotten its name.

skybrian 13y ago
Here's a really great SF story about the effects of technology on memory (ancient and modern): http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2013/the_truth_of_fact_the_truth_of_feeling_by_ted_chiang http://subterraneanpress.com/magazine/fall_2013/the_truth_of...
hifigi 13y ago
In the words of Henry Jones Sr. "I wrote it down so I wouldn't have to remember." Rote memory is fallible, fleeting and failing (in that order). Memorizing epic poetry is a noble cause, but even Plato would prefer to use those mental resources for applications more pertinent to a greater understanding of our physical reality. This sentiment accounts for the rapid transition to physically-recorded data, which everyone seems to agree was a general step in the right direction.