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> UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to Navy Admi

by 8ig8 13y ago

> UPDATE [12:37]: Tuoi Tre, a leading daily in Vietnam, reports that the Vietnamese Navy has confirmed the plane crashed into the ocean. According to Navy Admiral Ngo Van Phat, Commander of the Region 5, military radar recorded that the plane crashed into the sea at a location 153 miles South of Phu Quoc island. http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-air...

ChuckMcM 13y ago
Well that is good to know, the Air France jet took a long time to find because there was no radar information about where it went down. Large jets actually crashing feels very jarring these days to me, whereas 20 years ago it seemed much more common of an occurrence. Could just be a form of survivor bias though.
- dchuk 13y ago
  You realize a bunch of people died in this right?
  - kunai 13y ago
    I'm sure he does, but knowing what happened and where it went down (for the main purpose of locating the CVR and FDR) is critical to help prevent things like this from happening in the future. It sounds very grim, but we learn from our mistakes. Although blunders in mission-critical situations like aviations can cause loss of life, we save many more by learning about what happens in scenarios which we aren't prepared for. With AF447, we had to wait years for the investigation. It's likely this one will start faster. My condolences to the families of everyone involved. It's a sad day for aviation – the first fatalites of the 777's spotless record – and a much, much more solemn one for everyone onboard. May they rest in peace.
    - khuey 13y ago
      Nit picking, but the first fatalities on a 777 happened last summer in San Francisco in the Asiana 214 crash.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    Yes I do, and I lost a good friend to a plane accident. We knew they were likely gone and that was painful and sad, but the lack of closure until we knew what had happened was even worse. I hope you never have to experience that lack of knowing, wondering if there was anything could have been done, wondering who to be mad at, wondering how something so tragic could happen to someone for no reason. Having any information about their last minutes, where they might be, is a "good thing" relative to the over all "bad thing" that happened.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - Zancarius 13y ago
    Maybe it's late, but ChuckMcM didn't say anything that strikes me as degrading or otherwise disregarding the plight of those who died in today's accident. I suspect you may have misread; if so, that's perfectly fine--events like this strike at the very heart of our society in this connected world, and it's reasonable to express emotions to such an effect. I just want to remind you that the observation he made was simply a matter of pointing out that, as aircraft safety records have improved, the accidents that do happen seem so startling because of their rarity. And really, it's quite true. Modern aircraft are technological marvels, and it's difficult to think of one simply falling out of the sky. Granted, structural failure, controlled flight into terrain, loss of instruments or instrumentation (as in AF447 where instruments were deprived of important information due to icing), disoriented pilots, and any number of other things conspiring against what is otherwise a very safe method of travel. Hence the shock. The reality of the situation is well captured by kunai's comment. We can only learn to further improve the airline industry through such accidents. It's a tragedy of limitation and of our inability to see into the future. But, when you stop to think about it, what better way to honor the dead than to make sure whatever accident claimed their lives never happens again? That's why this is important.
    - yeukhon 13y ago
      That's one sad thing about aircraft. It's very complex. Thousands of screws and if one goes missing the aircraft could fall apart at critical moment. I know someone who works as aircraft technician and he describes his job extremely challenging. For example, a pilot said he believed the airplane was hit by lightning but the engineers couldn't locate any lightning mark. Could they risk the chance? Spent an extra 15 minutes and they still couldn't find any. Till this day neither the pilot nor any engineer could confirm that a lightning hit the aircraft that day. Every time I go on an airplane I would pray to get back on the ground safely. Everyone feels the fear when the airplane starts shaking or descending rapidly. Despite all the safety and escape plans, if an aircraft is doomed to crash/break apart/blow up, the chance of staying alive is so slim. And people on the airplane know they are about to die and that fear could last from a few seconds to a whole minute. That's a horrible way to die! I mean if you were on a bus and crashed on the high way, that's probably a few seconds. If you are lucky you could jump off the bus before the impact. This might be off topic, but this is also the exact reason why terrorists like to hijack airplane (I don't want to raise a holy war on airport security here, just let me finish my thoughts here, please!). And you are right, we have to learn through accidents and that's unfortunate. We do that all the time. I count myself a lucky one because I am still alive. I hope I don't become the next victim. I hope this will not happen again.
- Myrmornis 13y ago
  For the record, I also found the tone of your post inappropriate.
jimmies 13y ago
Tuoitre's news link: http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18157/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-has-not-entered-vn-airspace-caav http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18157/missing-malaysia-airline...
wavesounds 13y ago
Does anyone know if there's a possibility for survivors? Could a highly skilled pilot glide the plane to a safe crash landing on the water given ideal conditions for an engine failure (assuming thats what happened)? Or does a crash landing over the ocean basically mean the worst? My thoughts and prayers go out to those involved.
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Possibly so, but it's unlikely. I have some notion that emergency transponders would have been activated if the plane was brought down safely.
- refurb 13y ago
  It's a very different scenario, I know, but when Ethiopian Airlines flight 961 crashed into the ocean because it ran out of fuel during a hijacking, 50 out of a total of 163 people survived. Of course that crashed happened close to shore and rescues started quite quickly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- einhverfr 13y ago
  > Does anyone know if there's a possibility for survivors? I doubt it. No emergency transponder recorded. No mayday heard. It was at night. This suggests one of two things to my mind: 1. catastrophic failure with no real time to adjust, like an inflight breakup, or 2. A lack of knowledge that the flight was flying into the ocean (AF447 comes to mind there but there are other cases). Ditching a commercial aircraft in the ocean is not easy. It's going to be rediculously difficult at night, and right now there is no indication that the pilot was even trying to go for an emergency landing. I wish I could be hopeful, but it really doesn't look good.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ekianjo 13y ago
The aviation website Leeham news has posted a list of the standard possible causes that will be investigated in an incident of this nature. They stress that these are not specific to this case, but include: • Catastrophic structural failure • Dual engine flame-out • Clear air turbulence • Human intervention, such as penetration of the cockpit or a bomb • Accidental shooting-down • Suicide of the pilot
- nthitz 13y ago
  Could it be a deliberate shooting-down?
  - einhverfr 13y ago
    Seems unlikely to me. There's not a lot of tensions around that and shooting down a flight at 35000 ft would pretty much require a nation to be behind it.

by 8ig8 13y ago

ChuckMcM 13y ago

Well that is good to know, the Air France jet took a long time to find because there was no radar information about where it went down. Large jets actually crashing feels very jarring these days to me, whereas 20 years ago it seemed much more common of an occurrence. Could just be a form of survivor bias though.

dchuk 13y ago
You realize a bunch of people died in this right?
- kunai 13y ago
  I'm sure he does, but knowing what happened and where it went down (for the main purpose of locating the CVR and FDR) is critical to help prevent things like this from happening in the future. It sounds very grim, but we learn from our mistakes. Although blunders in mission-critical situations like aviations can cause loss of life, we save many more by learning about what happens in scenarios which we aren't prepared for. With AF447, we had to wait years for the investigation. It's likely this one will start faster. My condolences to the families of everyone involved. It's a sad day for aviation – the first fatalites of the 777's spotless record – and a much, much more solemn one for everyone onboard. May they rest in peace.
  - khuey 13y ago
    Nit picking, but the first fatalities on a 777 happened last summer in San Francisco in the Asiana 214 crash.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Yes I do, and I lost a good friend to a plane accident. We knew they were likely gone and that was painful and sad, but the lack of closure until we knew what had happened was even worse. I hope you never have to experience that lack of knowing, wondering if there was anything could have been done, wondering who to be mad at, wondering how something so tragic could happen to someone for no reason. Having any information about their last minutes, where they might be, is a "good thing" relative to the over all "bad thing" that happened.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- Zancarius 13y ago
  Maybe it's late, but ChuckMcM didn't say anything that strikes me as degrading or otherwise disregarding the plight of those who died in today's accident. I suspect you may have misread; if so, that's perfectly fine--events like this strike at the very heart of our society in this connected world, and it's reasonable to express emotions to such an effect. I just want to remind you that the observation he made was simply a matter of pointing out that, as aircraft safety records have improved, the accidents that do happen seem so startling because of their rarity. And really, it's quite true. Modern aircraft are technological marvels, and it's difficult to think of one simply falling out of the sky. Granted, structural failure, controlled flight into terrain, loss of instruments or instrumentation (as in AF447 where instruments were deprived of important information due to icing), disoriented pilots, and any number of other things conspiring against what is otherwise a very safe method of travel. Hence the shock. The reality of the situation is well captured by kunai's comment. We can only learn to further improve the airline industry through such accidents. It's a tragedy of limitation and of our inability to see into the future. But, when you stop to think about it, what better way to honor the dead than to make sure whatever accident claimed their lives never happens again? That's why this is important.
  - yeukhon 13y ago
    That's one sad thing about aircraft. It's very complex. Thousands of screws and if one goes missing the aircraft could fall apart at critical moment. I know someone who works as aircraft technician and he describes his job extremely challenging. For example, a pilot said he believed the airplane was hit by lightning but the engineers couldn't locate any lightning mark. Could they risk the chance? Spent an extra 15 minutes and they still couldn't find any. Till this day neither the pilot nor any engineer could confirm that a lightning hit the aircraft that day. Every time I go on an airplane I would pray to get back on the ground safely. Everyone feels the fear when the airplane starts shaking or descending rapidly. Despite all the safety and escape plans, if an aircraft is doomed to crash/break apart/blow up, the chance of staying alive is so slim. And people on the airplane know they are about to die and that fear could last from a few seconds to a whole minute. That's a horrible way to die! I mean if you were on a bus and crashed on the high way, that's probably a few seconds. If you are lucky you could jump off the bus before the impact. This might be off topic, but this is also the exact reason why terrorists like to hijack airplane (I don't want to raise a holy war on airport security here, just let me finish my thoughts here, please!). And you are right, we have to learn through accidents and that's unfortunate. We do that all the time. I count myself a lucky one because I am still alive. I hope I don't become the next victim. I hope this will not happen again.
Myrmornis 13y ago
For the record, I also found the tone of your post inappropriate.

jimmies 13y ago

Tuoitre's news link: http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18157/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-has-not-entered-vn-airspace-caav http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/18157/missing-malaysia-airline...

wavesounds 13y ago

Does anyone know if there's a possibility for survivors? Could a highly skilled pilot glide the plane to a safe crash landing on the water given ideal conditions for an engine failure (assuming thats what happened)? Or does a crash landing over the ocean basically mean the worst? My thoughts and prayers go out to those involved.

jamesaguilar 13y ago
Possibly so, but it's unlikely. I have some notion that emergency transponders would have been activated if the plane was brought down safely.
refurb 13y ago
It's a very different scenario, I know, but when Ethiopian Airlines flight 961 crashed into the ocean because it ran out of fuel during a hijacking, 50 out of a total of 163 people survived. Of course that crashed happened close to shore and rescues started quite quickly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
einhverfr 13y ago
> Does anyone know if there's a possibility for survivors? I doubt it. No emergency transponder recorded. No mayday heard. It was at night. This suggests one of two things to my mind: 1. catastrophic failure with no real time to adjust, like an inflight breakup, or 2. A lack of knowledge that the flight was flying into the ocean (AF447 comes to mind there but there are other cases). Ditching a commercial aircraft in the ocean is not easy. It's going to be rediculously difficult at night, and right now there is no indication that the pilot was even trying to go for an emergency landing. I wish I could be hopeful, but it really doesn't look good.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

ekianjo 13y ago

The aviation website Leeham news has posted a list of the standard possible causes that will be investigated in an incident of this nature. They stress that these are not specific to this case, but include: • Catastrophic structural failure • Dual engine flame-out • Clear air turbulence • Human intervention, such as penetration of the cockpit or a bomb • Accidental shooting-down • Suicide of the pilot

nthitz 13y ago
Could it be a deliberate shooting-down?
- einhverfr 13y ago
  Seems unlikely to me. There's not a lot of tensions around that and shooting down a flight at 35000 ft would pretty much require a nation to be behind it.