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I'd like to dial this back a bit. But not without saying that knocking down strawmen is not "defending things individually." And really... you find it "confusi

I'd like to dial this back a bit. But not without saying that knocking down strawmen is not "defending things individually." And really... you find it "confusing and different" that PHP uses a backslash for delimitation? Seriously? You can simultaneously wrap your mind around recursion, closures, pointer arithmetic and continuations but you're confused by the use of a backslash opposed to a colon, double-colon or triple colon? Confusing and Different? Seriously? Variety is unambiguously good. This is mutation and evolution. And it results in languages as fantastically different as Haskell, C, F#, Python, Perl, Lisp and even PHP. Programmers are by and large a smart bunch and the last thing we need to do is dumb-down languages for the least common denominator.

wvenable 17y ago
From a previous link on this subject: Java: Attribute/Method access: foo.bar Static method access: Foo.bar Package access: foo.bar.baz C#: Attribute/Method access: foo.bar Static method access: Foo.bar Namespace access: foo.bar.baz Python: Attribute/Method access: foo.bar Static method access: Foo.bar Module access: foo.bar.baz C++ Attribute/Method access: foo.bar and foo->bar Static method access: Foo::bar Namespace access: Foo::bar Perl: Attribute/Method access: $foo->bar Static method access: Foo::bar Module access: Foo::bar PHP: Attribute/Method access: $foo->bar Static method access: Foo::bar Namespace access: Foo\bar Variety is not unambiguously good. Variety is good if you're producing something different. Variety is bad if it's different for no reason. I work in many different languages, and having to learn yet another syntax unnecessarily is not a good thing. The PHP developers had a chance to add namespaces in a way that didn't make the language worse -- they didn't do that. Sure, maybe it's not a big deal -- just like all the other bad decisions, like magic_quotes, weren't a big deal. It's just disappointing that they couldn't do it right.
- encoderer 17y ago
  This is bordering on amusing to me now... Frankly, and I hate to devolve into the ad hominem, you're taking this religiously. You've turned this into a Bikeshed issue. This is only a "bad decision" because you've decided that YOU know TheWay. Those languages that use the dot for scope resolution have created an ambiguous operator in the plus sign. Concatenation? Addition? In a dynamic language you'll have to do some looking. And that's a good thing? Just because it's familar to you? And for your test of variety, I truly enjoy that you ommitted every single langauge that would give you some actual variety. You chose 6 languages all from the same paradigm. This is the last reply I'll be writing. I made the mistake of thinking that if you are a programmer, able to presumably create software that actually ships and makes peoples lives easier, you MUST be able to hold and weigh opposing view points and judge the relevance of things. I honestly wonder if you're the type that sits on the team, picks apart working code, and refactors and refactors and never actually ships. I'm not saying you are but I am saying that everyone of those types that I have come across share your same academic sense of RightWay and WrongWay. There are things that each language does wrong, that is, things that are confusing. But if you are CONFUSED by a backslash, you ought to reconsider your choice of profession. And finally, something you seem to have glossed over, is that if you find this as important as you seem, why don't you take the opportunity to create a working patch that uses the double-colon?
  - wvenable 17y ago
    Those languages that use the dot for scope resolution have created an ambiguous operator in the plus sign. Yeah, I think that's a bad idea too. Javascript is particularly bad because it's dynamically typed -- you may have to insert a few extra empty strings to get what you want. You chose 6 languages all from the same paradigm. Um, yes, that's the point!! All languages from the same paradigm doing things mostly the same. I can switch between Java, C#, PHP, and Javascript without too much trouble. If you've got a radically different language, it doesn't really matter to this discussion. This is the last reply I'll be writing. This is good, since you've run out of things to say except attack my programming skill and teamwork even though you don't know me. Typical. But if you are CONFUSED by a backslash, you ought to reconsider your choice of profession. I'm sorry you feel that everything is beyond criticism. I wonder, is there anything you actually care about? Go back to coding in COBOL -- if "ADD 1 TO VARIABLE" doesn't confuse you, I'm sure you'll be happy. why don't you take the opportunity to create a working patch that uses the double-colon? It's a fair question. Unfortunately I'm very busy, I have enough time to code, take care of the kids, and post to hackernews. I'm also a PHP programmer not a C programmer (right now, anyway). But the implication of your question is that I have no right to complain about open source projects?

wvenable 17y ago

From a previous link on this subject: Java: Attribute/Method access: foo.bar Static method access: Foo.bar Package access: foo.bar.baz C#: Attribute/Method access: foo.bar Static method access: Foo.bar Namespace access: foo.bar.baz Python: Attribute/Method access: foo.bar Static method access: Foo.bar Module access: foo.bar.baz C++ Attribute/Method access: foo.bar and foo->bar Static method access: Foo::bar Namespace access: Foo::bar Perl: Attribute/Method access: $foo->bar Static method access: Foo::bar Module access: Foo::bar PHP: Attribute/Method access: $foo->bar Static method access: Foo::bar Namespace access: Foo\bar Variety is not unambiguously good. Variety is good if you're producing something different. Variety is bad if it's different for no reason. I work in many different languages, and having to learn yet another syntax unnecessarily is not a good thing. The PHP developers had a chance to add namespaces in a way that didn't make the language worse -- they didn't do that. Sure, maybe it's not a big deal -- just like all the other bad decisions, like magic_quotes, weren't a big deal. It's just disappointing that they couldn't do it right.

encoderer 17y ago
This is bordering on amusing to me now... Frankly, and I hate to devolve into the ad hominem, you're taking this religiously. You've turned this into a Bikeshed issue. This is only a "bad decision" because you've decided that YOU know TheWay. Those languages that use the dot for scope resolution have created an ambiguous operator in the plus sign. Concatenation? Addition? In a dynamic language you'll have to do some looking. And that's a good thing? Just because it's familar to you? And for your test of variety, I truly enjoy that you ommitted every single langauge that would give you some actual variety. You chose 6 languages all from the same paradigm. This is the last reply I'll be writing. I made the mistake of thinking that if you are a programmer, able to presumably create software that actually ships and makes peoples lives easier, you MUST be able to hold and weigh opposing view points and judge the relevance of things. I honestly wonder if you're the type that sits on the team, picks apart working code, and refactors and refactors and never actually ships. I'm not saying you are but I am saying that everyone of those types that I have come across share your same academic sense of RightWay and WrongWay. There are things that each language does wrong, that is, things that are confusing. But if you are CONFUSED by a backslash, you ought to reconsider your choice of profession. And finally, something you seem to have glossed over, is that if you find this as important as you seem, why don't you take the opportunity to create a working patch that uses the double-colon?
- wvenable 17y ago
  Those languages that use the dot for scope resolution have created an ambiguous operator in the plus sign. Yeah, I think that's a bad idea too. Javascript is particularly bad because it's dynamically typed -- you may have to insert a few extra empty strings to get what you want. You chose 6 languages all from the same paradigm. Um, yes, that's the point!! All languages from the same paradigm doing things mostly the same. I can switch between Java, C#, PHP, and Javascript without too much trouble. If you've got a radically different language, it doesn't really matter to this discussion. This is the last reply I'll be writing. This is good, since you've run out of things to say except attack my programming skill and teamwork even though you don't know me. Typical. But if you are CONFUSED by a backslash, you ought to reconsider your choice of profession. I'm sorry you feel that everything is beyond criticism. I wonder, is there anything you actually care about? Go back to coding in COBOL -- if "ADD 1 TO VARIABLE" doesn't confuse you, I'm sure you'll be happy. why don't you take the opportunity to create a working patch that uses the double-colon? It's a fair question. Unfortunately I'm very busy, I have enough time to code, take care of the kids, and post to hackernews. I'm also a PHP programmer not a C programmer (right now, anyway). But the implication of your question is that I have no right to complain about open source projects?