4 ms·

Why do you need to go to university to to improve your knowledge of history or sociology? A degree in history or sociology is seen as useless because it mostly

Why do you need to go to university to to improve your knowledge of history or sociology? A degree in history or sociology is seen as useless because it mostly is outside academia. The people who are good in the field will most likely end up on the academic track, and those who aren't will most likely end up in low paying jobs having wasted several years and tens of thousands of dollars. The problem isn't history or sociology degrees, it is people thinking that a degree is a ticket to a good job.

jrs99 13y ago
But the guy in the article wants to be a High School teacher. It's not like the guy wants to be some historian at some institution. And a college degree is probably something you really want if you want to become a High School teacher. Is it wrong for him to think that he needs a college degree in order to teach high school? What are his chances of teaching high school WITHOUT a degree?
- JanezStupar 13y ago
  I think that having college educated historians as high school history teachers is a terrible waste of resources.
  - jrs99 13y ago
    I think that's true for every field. Some people love degrees when they hire though.
  - jerf 13y ago
    Oh, well, good news then, if you actually examine the curriculum requirement for being a history teacher and compare it to getting a degree in straight-up history, you'll see that the teacher is not required to take anywhere near as much, and the teacher will not take the really hard history courses that grade in terms of reams of essay writing. Some teachers take the initiative to double-major of their own free will (respect!), but it is certainly not required. When I was in school I casually assumed that my teachers knew a great deal more about the subjects than what they were teaching; when I got to University and had the opportunity to look at their curricula requirements I learned that was not true, at least not in general.
- bennyg 13y ago
  Gotta' have a teaching certificate for most public school institutions. Private schools is less formally strict in that sense, but where I'm from they struggle to keep up with the public schools - thus they require teaching certificates too.
- Perdition 13y ago
  >But the guy in the article wants to be a High School teacher. I already mentioned low-paid jobs. Also, at least here in Australia the only pure degrees that the high-school education system cares about are maths and science, everything else is "generalist" and can be filled by any teacher. In addition, at least here a general degree isn't good enough any more, you either need a teaching degree or a graduate diploma in teaching.
  - jrs99 13y ago
    i wouldn't call a high school teacher a low paying job. i guess it is compared to software. In the US at least, it sounds very reasonable to go to college to get a history degree if your goal is to become a high school history teacher. To me, it sounds perfectly an achievable goal to decide to go to college, get a major in history, know that you're not even close to the best historians out there, and expect a job teaching high school. just like the guy in the article assumed. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, and might have been a waste of money. But there was nothing unreasonable in his thought process, from my perspective at least. I would even bet it won't be too tough for him to get a teaching job in the future.
    - Perdition 13y ago
      >expect a job teaching high school. Yeah see the expectation is the problem. Here in Australia most of the people with teaching degrees are waiting for the boomers to retire, because there are very few full time positions (unless you are willing to move to the most remote and poor communities). >But there was nothing unreasonable in his thought process, from my perspective at least. The unreasonable thing is believing that just getting a degree will get you into a middle-class profession. That hasn't been true for at least twenty years. You need good grades, co-ops, and connections. As the article points out the market for tertiary educated workers is smaller than the pool of tertiary educated workers.
      - jrs99 13y ago
        I agree. But what can you do? You're a student and want to be a high school history teacher. You might not have what it takes to be a PhD Historian. You might not get a teaching job. Still probably want to get a degree.
jlockfre 13y ago
And if they're doing out of a passion for the subject? What then?
- Perdition 13y ago
  They should be thankful that they are privileged enough to waste the time and the money on a hobby.

jrs99 13y ago

But the guy in the article wants to be a High School teacher. It's not like the guy wants to be some historian at some institution. And a college degree is probably something you really want if you want to become a High School teacher. Is it wrong for him to think that he needs a college degree in order to teach high school? What are his chances of teaching high school WITHOUT a degree?

JanezStupar 13y ago
I think that having college educated historians as high school history teachers is a terrible waste of resources.
- jrs99 13y ago
  I think that's true for every field. Some people love degrees when they hire though.
- jerf 13y ago
  Oh, well, good news then, if you actually examine the curriculum requirement for being a history teacher and compare it to getting a degree in straight-up history, you'll see that the teacher is not required to take anywhere near as much, and the teacher will not take the really hard history courses that grade in terms of reams of essay writing. Some teachers take the initiative to double-major of their own free will (respect!), but it is certainly not required. When I was in school I casually assumed that my teachers knew a great deal more about the subjects than what they were teaching; when I got to University and had the opportunity to look at their curricula requirements I learned that was not true, at least not in general.
bennyg 13y ago
Gotta' have a teaching certificate for most public school institutions. Private schools is less formally strict in that sense, but where I'm from they struggle to keep up with the public schools - thus they require teaching certificates too.
Perdition 13y ago
>But the guy in the article wants to be a High School teacher. I already mentioned low-paid jobs. Also, at least here in Australia the only pure degrees that the high-school education system cares about are maths and science, everything else is "generalist" and can be filled by any teacher. In addition, at least here a general degree isn't good enough any more, you either need a teaching degree or a graduate diploma in teaching.
- jrs99 13y ago
  i wouldn't call a high school teacher a low paying job. i guess it is compared to software. In the US at least, it sounds very reasonable to go to college to get a history degree if your goal is to become a high school history teacher. To me, it sounds perfectly an achievable goal to decide to go to college, get a major in history, know that you're not even close to the best historians out there, and expect a job teaching high school. just like the guy in the article assumed. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, and might have been a waste of money. But there was nothing unreasonable in his thought process, from my perspective at least. I would even bet it won't be too tough for him to get a teaching job in the future.
  - Perdition 13y ago
    >expect a job teaching high school. Yeah see the expectation is the problem. Here in Australia most of the people with teaching degrees are waiting for the boomers to retire, because there are very few full time positions (unless you are willing to move to the most remote and poor communities). >But there was nothing unreasonable in his thought process, from my perspective at least. The unreasonable thing is believing that just getting a degree will get you into a middle-class profession. That hasn't been true for at least twenty years. You need good grades, co-ops, and connections. As the article points out the market for tertiary educated workers is smaller than the pool of tertiary educated workers.
    - jrs99 13y ago
      I agree. But what can you do? You're a student and want to be a high school history teacher. You might not have what it takes to be a PhD Historian. You might not get a teaching job. Still probably want to get a degree.

jlockfre 13y ago

And if they're doing out of a passion for the subject? What then?

Perdition 13y ago
They should be thankful that they are privileged enough to waste the time and the money on a hobby.