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Yeah, who do they think they are? Going off and learning things willy-nilly without considering whether their increase in knowledge is economically necessary. T

Yeah, who do they think they are? Going off and learning things willy-nilly without considering whether their increase in knowledge is economically necessary. They could have put that time to use by just starting work earlier. Not they would have got the job if they had started earlier, as it would have gone to someone with higher qualifications, no doubt also needlessly acquired of course...

aestra 13y ago
Having a history degree doesn't exactly make you more qualified to be a bartender (going by the example in the article).
- kokey 13y ago
  I'm not sure, I think in the UK it's a fairly common assumption that a history degree means you'll most likely be operating a beer tap to pay the bills. This is also useful in most pubs since they are a few centuries old.
  - aestra 13y ago
    >in the UK it's a fairly common assumption... This story was about the US. >This is also useful in most pubs since they are a few centuries old. And? I've been to a pub in the US that was 3 centuries old and thought to be the first building in the city (used to be a private residence). The building's history was probably part of the orientation, and it isn't like it is hard to memorize. Having a history degree doesn't make him more qualified to talk about it, it isn't like the history of pubs is included in the undergraduate (or even graduate) curriculum. >assumption that a history degree means you'll most likely be operating a beer tap to pay the bills Yea, a history degree is known to be pretty "useless" to most people who obtain one, that doesn't mean one is more qualified because they have one, it just means there is very little one can do with a history degree.
- lotsofmangos 13y ago
  Learning history is an end in and of itself though. You don't need to have an application in mind to justify getting a degree.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    As consumption -- "I want to know about history" -- it's great. As investment -- "I want a degree to get a better job" -- it may not be good for the individual, and for society it's probably a net negative, because the benefits to your human capital are minimal while you are putting more resources into a zero-sum status competition. Now, it's perfectly okay to have consumption, but you shouldn't confuse it for an investment. Spending 4 years backpacking across Europe also sounds like an awesome time, another end unto itself, but you shouldn't borrow money you don't have to do it.
    - lotsofmangos 13y ago
      Not all returns on investments are financial. Spending money improving the level of history knowledge in a population can have paybacks that range from better national security through to the quality of art. These things are very hard to quantify and to just look on their direct financial return gives a very poor measure.
davidw 13y ago
There are plenty of ways of learning things. I consider myself as well-learned as most college-educated people I know, and I never had any student debts. I'm also incredibly lucky to be in a field where the lack of a degree is not a problem, but perhaps this will be more common in the future.
- zanny 13y ago
  It is also their choice to put themselves in as much debt as they want. And it is an employers choice to hire someone with a piece of paper for arbitrary reasons. The problems aren't with trying to change the minds of millions of people, it is with reconciling a system that no longer works because we are still operating under the false tautology that human labor, of any kind, has value.
Shivetya 13y ago
Let us combine with the story earlier from the week about the SAT test being changed. Having a college education is marketed very heavily in this society and what do the ACT and SAT have use for other than determining which colleges are open to a student. With High Schools pushing these tests hard they in turn are pushing students to college even when it might not be the best choice. Don't underestimate the power that marketing has. Between state and privates schools there is a lot of money to be had and it only keeps working if they can convince each generation that the education they provide is indispensable

aestra 13y ago

Having a history degree doesn't exactly make you more qualified to be a bartender (going by the example in the article).

kokey 13y ago
I'm not sure, I think in the UK it's a fairly common assumption that a history degree means you'll most likely be operating a beer tap to pay the bills. This is also useful in most pubs since they are a few centuries old.
- aestra 13y ago
  >in the UK it's a fairly common assumption... This story was about the US. >This is also useful in most pubs since they are a few centuries old. And? I've been to a pub in the US that was 3 centuries old and thought to be the first building in the city (used to be a private residence). The building's history was probably part of the orientation, and it isn't like it is hard to memorize. Having a history degree doesn't make him more qualified to talk about it, it isn't like the history of pubs is included in the undergraduate (or even graduate) curriculum. >assumption that a history degree means you'll most likely be operating a beer tap to pay the bills Yea, a history degree is known to be pretty "useless" to most people who obtain one, that doesn't mean one is more qualified because they have one, it just means there is very little one can do with a history degree.
lotsofmangos 13y ago
Learning history is an end in and of itself though. You don't need to have an application in mind to justify getting a degree.
- danielweber 13y ago
  As consumption -- "I want to know about history" -- it's great. As investment -- "I want a degree to get a better job" -- it may not be good for the individual, and for society it's probably a net negative, because the benefits to your human capital are minimal while you are putting more resources into a zero-sum status competition. Now, it's perfectly okay to have consumption, but you shouldn't confuse it for an investment. Spending 4 years backpacking across Europe also sounds like an awesome time, another end unto itself, but you shouldn't borrow money you don't have to do it.
  - lotsofmangos 13y ago
    Not all returns on investments are financial. Spending money improving the level of history knowledge in a population can have paybacks that range from better national security through to the quality of art. These things are very hard to quantify and to just look on their direct financial return gives a very poor measure.

davidw 13y ago

There are plenty of ways of learning things. I consider myself as well-learned as most college-educated people I know, and I never had any student debts. I'm also incredibly lucky to be in a field where the lack of a degree is not a problem, but perhaps this will be more common in the future.

zanny 13y ago
It is also their choice to put themselves in as much debt as they want. And it is an employers choice to hire someone with a piece of paper for arbitrary reasons. The problems aren't with trying to change the minds of millions of people, it is with reconciling a system that no longer works because we are still operating under the false tautology that human labor, of any kind, has value.

Shivetya 13y ago

Let us combine with the story earlier from the week about the SAT test being changed. Having a college education is marketed very heavily in this society and what do the ACT and SAT have use for other than determining which colleges are open to a student. With High Schools pushing these tests hard they in turn are pushing students to college even when it might not be the best choice. Don't underestimate the power that marketing has. Between state and privates schools there is a lot of money to be had and it only keeps working if they can convince each generation that the education they provide is indispensable