5 ms·

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a bu

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintained housing and presumably never have children. This is happening NOW and it is a disgrace. Unbelievably it is being encouraged by the government with schemes to prop the bubble up further! But they are only a year away from an election now and its the older people renting out property who are most likely to vote and so the young just have to deal with it. Actual wealth creation that can come from government support of startup hubs is the furthest thing from this governments mind. We're all too busy getting rich from doing nothing all day in someone else's office and waiting for the young to pay off our multiple properties mortgages for us to actually do anything creative or beneficial. Im here and it makes me sick. This government by the way, which is manipulating the housing market in such an anti capitalist way, is actually the more capitalist party of the two.

mpclark 13y ago
> Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Never seen it put so pithily, and yes, that's exactly how it feels.
- marvin 13y ago
  Norway is mostly the same these days. Maybe it's a Northern European phenomenon. Of course, there is an upside to this: By renting, you are not taking on the risk of a fall in real estate prices. But I'm not sure if the fewer rights make up for it. You can't be "evicted" for no reason over here, but to my understanding it is legal to have renting contracts with a 1-month notice to termination. So it's more or less the same situation.
  - mpclark 13y ago
    I get the feeling that the government in the UK is managing the economy solely to make sure house prices do not fall as that would cause a national crisis at this point. Under any other circumstances they would surely have collapsed by now. The other problem is that the rental stock in the UK is managed almost exclusively by amateur landlords, which leads to petty restrictions (no pets, no smoking, no drilling, no decorating etc), attempts to sell houses out from under the occupier ("You don't mind if we show some people round every now and then, do you?" The hell I don't!) and hard-to-quantify risks (I know somebody with an older landlord who is now undergoing another round of treatment for cancer; putting the human tragedy aside, should they start looking for another place now, or can they wait a while?)
- justincormack 13y ago
  er, some of us over 40s are renting too. If you did a startup rather than getting a mortgage when younger and so didn't buy a house you can't now.
ses 13y ago
I fully agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not sure where the degree of capitalism involved comes in. I think it has much more to do with the lack of creativity in government that you mention. Ultimately it does feel like younger generations are the fuel for the engines that drive the UK economy.
- onmydesk 13y ago
  It is perhaps more accurate to say the prevention of allowing a free market to operate in housing is the problem. Government meddling. What the UK desperately needs is for these artificial props to be removed from the housing market and for the market to operate. This will lead to a correction which at this point actually benefits more people than it harms. Selling piles of bricks to one another for ever increasing prices is plainly unsustainable and yet it has become the basis for the UK economy. We need that money to go into entrepreneurial activity the likes of which a startup hub is well placed to encourage. This story of property investment trumping entrepreneurial activity is a microcosm of the story of the UK economy as a whole since the housing bubble started 10+ years ago. The UK desperately needs a free market oriented government. Traditionally the conservatives were that party but it appears no longer. They have just continued to damage the UK as the party before them. It is appalling.
  - ses 13y ago
    I think one of the first things we need to look at is the poor quality of a lot of new housing developments and the number of unoccupied / 'brown-field' that could be renovated and provide much more affordable housing than the over inflated prices of new properties. I still fail to see why the ideology of a more unrestricted free market economy would be of any benefit to the property market. In fact I think fewer restrictions would worsen the situation with many buying new houses that could become effectively worthless where for example they have been built in high flood risk areas. I agree the economy should be less reliant on the housing bubble, but I'm not convinced that technology / start-ups are the only way to achieve this. The 'start-up' hubs you mention are just as likely to become another black-hole which the government throws money at with no real strategy in place.
gaius 13y ago
Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? That is simply not true. Evicting anyone is a long, drawn-out process, even if they stop paying the rent!
- onmydesk 13y ago
  After the Assured Shorthold Tenancy period you can be given 2 months notice at any time. Regardless of what kind of tenant you have been, whether you paid your rent on time, etc etc etc. I know it has happened to me and many others I have spoken to. What sort of an environment is that in which to lead a settled life? Many many priced out tenants have had to move their kids from school to school as incompetent landlords discover they got their sums wrong and have to sell up. If you are a 'problem tenant' and stop paying rent there are difficult processes to go through in order to force an eviction. But I am not talking about the far less common case of non payment of rent from a difficult person. I am talking about decent families being forced out of their home as the norm. That is a disgrace.
  - gaius 13y ago
    That is not the same thing as "being evicted". The relationship between you and the landlord is the same as any buyer and seller of goods. If say Cadbury's decided to stop making your favourite chocolate bar, would you feel your rights had been trampled? Or if a shop decided to stop carrying some product you loved. Or if your favourite TV show got cancelled. Or perhaps if the macro environment changes, should the landlord subsidize you when the bank is charging him more? Will the plumber give him a discount because he is a good guy? Will the supplier also give the plumber that discount because he's doing some work for a good guy who charges his tenants less than the going rate? And what if the landlord's personal circumstances change and he or she desperately needs the money? Say they are no longer able to work? I know that it is disruptive to move house, but in all likelihood the landlord isn't a monster, just someone who's trying to save for their retirement and has been scared out of pension funds by the smash and grab raid launched in 1997 (which I'll note the current lot haven't reversed).
    - 13y ago

mpclark 13y ago

> Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Never seen it put so pithily, and yes, that's exactly how it feels.

marvin 13y ago
Norway is mostly the same these days. Maybe it's a Northern European phenomenon. Of course, there is an upside to this: By renting, you are not taking on the risk of a fall in real estate prices. But I'm not sure if the fewer rights make up for it. You can't be "evicted" for no reason over here, but to my understanding it is legal to have renting contracts with a 1-month notice to termination. So it's more or less the same situation.
- mpclark 13y ago
  I get the feeling that the government in the UK is managing the economy solely to make sure house prices do not fall as that would cause a national crisis at this point. Under any other circumstances they would surely have collapsed by now. The other problem is that the rental stock in the UK is managed almost exclusively by amateur landlords, which leads to petty restrictions (no pets, no smoking, no drilling, no decorating etc), attempts to sell houses out from under the occupier ("You don't mind if we show some people round every now and then, do you?" The hell I don't!) and hard-to-quantify risks (I know somebody with an older landlord who is now undergoing another round of treatment for cancer; putting the human tragedy aside, should they start looking for another place now, or can they wait a while?)
justincormack 13y ago
er, some of us over 40s are renting too. If you did a startup rather than getting a mortgage when younger and so didn't buy a house you can't now.

ses 13y ago

I fully agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not sure where the degree of capitalism involved comes in. I think it has much more to do with the lack of creativity in government that you mention. Ultimately it does feel like younger generations are the fuel for the engines that drive the UK economy.

onmydesk 13y ago
It is perhaps more accurate to say the prevention of allowing a free market to operate in housing is the problem. Government meddling. What the UK desperately needs is for these artificial props to be removed from the housing market and for the market to operate. This will lead to a correction which at this point actually benefits more people than it harms. Selling piles of bricks to one another for ever increasing prices is plainly unsustainable and yet it has become the basis for the UK economy. We need that money to go into entrepreneurial activity the likes of which a startup hub is well placed to encourage. This story of property investment trumping entrepreneurial activity is a microcosm of the story of the UK economy as a whole since the housing bubble started 10+ years ago. The UK desperately needs a free market oriented government. Traditionally the conservatives were that party but it appears no longer. They have just continued to damage the UK as the party before them. It is appalling.
- ses 13y ago
  I think one of the first things we need to look at is the poor quality of a lot of new housing developments and the number of unoccupied / 'brown-field' that could be renovated and provide much more affordable housing than the over inflated prices of new properties. I still fail to see why the ideology of a more unrestricted free market economy would be of any benefit to the property market. In fact I think fewer restrictions would worsen the situation with many buying new houses that could become effectively worthless where for example they have been built in high flood risk areas. I agree the economy should be less reliant on the housing bubble, but I'm not convinced that technology / start-ups are the only way to achieve this. The 'start-up' hubs you mention are just as likely to become another black-hole which the government throws money at with no real strategy in place.

gaius 13y ago

Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? That is simply not true. Evicting anyone is a long, drawn-out process, even if they stop paying the rent!

onmydesk 13y ago
After the Assured Shorthold Tenancy period you can be given 2 months notice at any time. Regardless of what kind of tenant you have been, whether you paid your rent on time, etc etc etc. I know it has happened to me and many others I have spoken to. What sort of an environment is that in which to lead a settled life? Many many priced out tenants have had to move their kids from school to school as incompetent landlords discover they got their sums wrong and have to sell up. If you are a 'problem tenant' and stop paying rent there are difficult processes to go through in order to force an eviction. But I am not talking about the far less common case of non payment of rent from a difficult person. I am talking about decent families being forced out of their home as the norm. That is a disgrace.
- gaius 13y ago
  That is not the same thing as "being evicted". The relationship between you and the landlord is the same as any buyer and seller of goods. If say Cadbury's decided to stop making your favourite chocolate bar, would you feel your rights had been trampled? Or if a shop decided to stop carrying some product you loved. Or if your favourite TV show got cancelled. Or perhaps if the macro environment changes, should the landlord subsidize you when the bank is charging him more? Will the plumber give him a discount because he is a good guy? Will the supplier also give the plumber that discount because he's doing some work for a good guy who charges his tenants less than the going rate? And what if the landlord's personal circumstances change and he or she desperately needs the money? Say they are no longer able to work? I know that it is disruptive to move house, but in all likelihood the landlord isn't a monster, just someone who's trying to save for their retirement and has been scared out of pension funds by the smash and grab raid launched in 1997 (which I'll note the current lot haven't reversed).
  - 13y ago