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If you look at the internet comments of Dorian Nakamoto, it is obvious that he is not the same person that wrote the whitepaper or participated in the bitcoin

by VMG 13y ago

If you look at the internet comments of Dorian Nakamoto, it is obvious that he is not the same person that wrote the whitepaper or participated in the bitcoin forums: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zpuer/the_newsweek_article_is_probably_incorrect_look/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zpuer/the_newsweek... His skill level is completely different.

hnha 13y ago
or he just manages multiple online identities? It's not hard, especially if you are smart...
Steko 13y ago
The idea that these reddit links are some kind of smoking gun is a bad case of rationalizing. FWIW, my Father in law is a first generation Asian immigrant who is an engineer and for whom English is a second language. His emails to my wife are like the one above - broken English, poor grammar. But I've seen some documents that he's written for work - the early stages of patent applications, for instance - and they read like someone else wrote them, even though my FIL is the one who wrote them as they'd yet to have been submitted internally. Proper grammar, more formal prose. There is, every now and then, a phrase or word that seems out of place and not something a natural speaker would say, but the difference between in grammar between work and personal emails is night and day.
- VMG 13y ago
  the burden of proof is on those who make the extremely unlikely claim that the person who painstakingly tried to hide his identity used his real name, communicates in native-level english on the Bitcoin forums and purposefully communicates in low-level English on all other internet forums. Does not make any sense at all.
  - georgemcbay 13y ago
    From where I'm sitting the burden of proof is on those who claim he ever painstakingly tried to hide his identity. To me it looks like someone who doesn't like a lot of personal attention (something I can certainly relate to) creating something to scratch an intellectual itch and that thing grew far larger than he imagined, so he bowed out. I see no proof that he is someone who was planning complete anonymity from the start, that seems to me like a bolted on rationalization from people confused by his partial disappearing act.
    - VMG 13y ago
      The newsweek article itself claims that Satoshi tried to hide his identity. He never posted any personal information and used an anonymous japanese registration service for the bitcoin.org domain, payment in cash. An unlikely effort for somebody who doesn't care about anonymity.
      - georgemcbay 13y ago
        The article quotes Gavin Andresen as saying "He went to great lengths to protect his anonymity.", but other than that doesn't offer anything to show that he actually was actively trying to hide his identity or was ever using a pseudonym.
        VMG 13y ago
        In that case, why is there no track record of a programmer named Satoshi Nakamoto on the internet? All we have is a track record of a model train hobbyist Dorian Nakamoto.
        gwern 13y ago
        If it helps a bit: Satoshi Nakamoto sent all emails over Tor, connected to Bitcointalk over Tor, and paid through the nose for bitcoin.org registrar & hosting services on Anonymousspeech.
  - Steko 13y ago
    Somehow you've mistaken life for a courtroom where we all need to meet the same standard of proof. I don't care what your burden of proof is, the preponderance of the evidence to me says that this is the guy. Now if Newsweek comes out and retracts the fairly unambiguous quotes we saw earlier I'm more than happy to change my views.
Phlarp 13y ago
Some of those links show him speaking in broken english with obvious misspellings, others are well structured and make him seem very obviously technically adept and attentive to at least hobbyist standards. "Hi Nilayam, 1. Which wheels have spokes and how many spokes for each wheel? My UK built Pearse's 2-6-4 in 15mm/ft (1/20.3 scale) has all the wheels as solid disc (no spokes) and I'm wondering if this is true on the real prototype's Kitson locomotives of the same class, such as the 4-8-4 shown in your photos. 2. What were the thickness of the tyres? I think the thickness should be 4.5" or 4.75" for a 2ft 6inch gauge track with 5" diam. axles? If you can get close up photos of the wheels, that'll be great. The L&M's truck wheels were 1 ft 11 inches and the drivers were 2 ft 6 inches I believe. Dorian Nakamoto USA" While these differences in writing style aren't conclusive in either direction; it does indicate that he is at least aware of how he conveys information online.
sktrdie 13y ago
This other comment by the same Dorian shows that he's capable of writing better english: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-barsi-light-railway-india-kitson.38359/#post-702441 https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-bars...
georgemcbay 13y ago
There is substantial variation in those samples themselves let alone between those samples and the bitcoin whitepaper. Some of them are written like bad text messages and some are perfect but awkwardly formal, and some are perfectly conversational. If those posts were consistent and at odds with his bitcoin writing (on the forums -- including the whitepaper is silly, virtually everyone writes differently for 'formal' papers) maybe they'd be decent proof, but they are all over the map. Also, how about adding this link to this list: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-barsi-light-railway-india-kitson.38359/ https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-bars... Another Dorian post on trains which is in a lot of ways remarkably similar to the bitcoin guy's writing.

by VMG 13y ago

hnha 13y ago

or he just manages multiple online identities? It's not hard, especially if you are smart...

Steko 13y ago

The idea that these reddit links are some kind of smoking gun is a bad case of rationalizing. FWIW, my Father in law is a first generation Asian immigrant who is an engineer and for whom English is a second language. His emails to my wife are like the one above - broken English, poor grammar. But I've seen some documents that he's written for work - the early stages of patent applications, for instance - and they read like someone else wrote them, even though my FIL is the one who wrote them as they'd yet to have been submitted internally. Proper grammar, more formal prose. There is, every now and then, a phrase or word that seems out of place and not something a natural speaker would say, but the difference between in grammar between work and personal emails is night and day.

VMG 13y ago
the burden of proof is on those who make the extremely unlikely claim that the person who painstakingly tried to hide his identity used his real name, communicates in native-level english on the Bitcoin forums and purposefully communicates in low-level English on all other internet forums. Does not make any sense at all.
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  From where I'm sitting the burden of proof is on those who claim he ever painstakingly tried to hide his identity. To me it looks like someone who doesn't like a lot of personal attention (something I can certainly relate to) creating something to scratch an intellectual itch and that thing grew far larger than he imagined, so he bowed out. I see no proof that he is someone who was planning complete anonymity from the start, that seems to me like a bolted on rationalization from people confused by his partial disappearing act.
  - VMG 13y ago
    The newsweek article itself claims that Satoshi tried to hide his identity. He never posted any personal information and used an anonymous japanese registration service for the bitcoin.org domain, payment in cash. An unlikely effort for somebody who doesn't care about anonymity.
    - georgemcbay 13y ago
      The article quotes Gavin Andresen as saying "He went to great lengths to protect his anonymity.", but other than that doesn't offer anything to show that he actually was actively trying to hide his identity or was ever using a pseudonym.
      - VMG 13y ago
        In that case, why is there no track record of a programmer named Satoshi Nakamoto on the internet? All we have is a track record of a model train hobbyist Dorian Nakamoto.
      - gwern 13y ago
        If it helps a bit: Satoshi Nakamoto sent all emails over Tor, connected to Bitcointalk over Tor, and paid through the nose for bitcoin.org registrar & hosting services on Anonymousspeech.
- Steko 13y ago
  Somehow you've mistaken life for a courtroom where we all need to meet the same standard of proof. I don't care what your burden of proof is, the preponderance of the evidence to me says that this is the guy. Now if Newsweek comes out and retracts the fairly unambiguous quotes we saw earlier I'm more than happy to change my views.

Phlarp 13y ago

Some of those links show him speaking in broken english with obvious misspellings, others are well structured and make him seem very obviously technically adept and attentive to at least hobbyist standards. "Hi Nilayam, 1. Which wheels have spokes and how many spokes for each wheel? My UK built Pearse's 2-6-4 in 15mm/ft (1/20.3 scale) has all the wheels as solid disc (no spokes) and I'm wondering if this is true on the real prototype's Kitson locomotives of the same class, such as the 4-8-4 shown in your photos. 2. What were the thickness of the tyres? I think the thickness should be 4.5" or 4.75" for a 2ft 6inch gauge track with 5" diam. axles? If you can get close up photos of the wheels, that'll be great. The L&M's truck wheels were 1 ft 11 inches and the drivers were 2 ft 6 inches I believe. Dorian Nakamoto USA" While these differences in writing style aren't conclusive in either direction; it does indicate that he is at least aware of how he conveys information online.

sktrdie 13y ago

This other comment by the same Dorian shows that he's capable of writing better english: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-barsi-light-railway-india-kitson.38359/#post-702441 https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-bars...

georgemcbay 13y ago

There is substantial variation in those samples themselves let alone between those samples and the bitcoin whitepaper. Some of them are written like bad text messages and some are perfect but awkwardly formal, and some are perfectly conversational. If those posts were consistent and at odds with his bitcoin writing (on the forums -- including the whitepaper is silly, virtually everyone writes differently for 'formal' papers) maybe they'd be decent proof, but they are all over the map. Also, how about adding this link to this list: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-barsi-light-railway-india-kitson.38359/ https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/preserved-bars... Another Dorian post on trains which is in a lot of ways remarkably similar to the bitcoin guy's writing.