4 ms·

You've identified two classes of customer for this app but speculated, without evidence, that most of them fall into only one of those classes. Ironically my o

by john_b 13y ago

You've identified two classes of customer for this app but speculated, without evidence, that most of them fall into only one of those classes. Ironically my objection to this service is essentially the opposite of yours. I see this app as imposing a middleman's fee on something that, in a perfect world, citizens would be able to perform themselves with the same probability of success. Contesting an illegitimate parking or speeding ticket is a fairly straightforward matter, but in my (personal) experience, unless you bring a lawyer to the courtroom your arguments will simply be ignored. In my area, the courts do not even keep records, so you can't use the judge's blatant dismissal of your concerns* as grounds for a mistrial on appeal. Maybe I'm not understanding how the service works, but I see this service as simply a specialized and cheaper lawyer replacement. Maybe that's progress since you can actually save some money if you win, but you're still paying a more powerful entity in order to get respect in a court of law. *I've literally been told by a judge, "stop speaking now, your turn is over" seconds after showing that the officer didn't use a LIDAR gun correctly per the manual, and upon cross examination didn't even know the type of device he was using (Me: "Were you using a radar or a laser based device on <date> at <time>?" Officer: "I was using the device the department issued me." Right afterwards: "Me: If you don't know what kind of device you were using, how can you know the effective range of the device?" Officer: "I believe it was effective and accurate when I used it."). The judge repeatedly referred to it as a "LASAR" device...

darklajid 13y ago
You're right. And I'm the first to admit that I cannot even begin to understand the full potential of the application. I'm not from the US and these things are decidedly local and special. But from where I'm standing, you either park correctly or risk a ticket. In fact, this country here just raised the minimum amount for parking offenses because people did the math and found out that in some cases a ticket was cheaper than paying (parking ground, whatever). So in my (certainly subjective, shaped, hardly applicable to the service at hand) world view you're just not fighting tickets. You either don't get them or you risked to get them. Exceptions exist, but are a teeny, tiny fraction and wouldn't be enough to keep a service like this afloat. Could I be totally wrong: Sure.
rayiner 13y ago
I like the system we have in Philadelphia. To contest a minor traffic ticket, you don't have to show up in court or anything like that. There's a website where you can type in your ticket number, write why the ticket was incorrect, and upload evidence to support the claim. It's quite straightforward.
ilbe 13y ago
I'm with you because I had the same experience with a judge while lawyerless. I showed him a manufacturer tech spec on my car to make the point that based on its 0-60 acceleration, it was physically impossible that I was going 67 mph by the time I reached the intersection where I was clocked from where I started accelerating. His response upon seeing the specs was, "What are you, trying to sell me on a car?! This officer (witness) has been with the department 15 years. Guilty."
- rahimnathwani 13y ago
  If that judge had been on HN he would have been cited for 1 count of 'appeal to authority'.
tibbon 13y ago
I'd love to see something this like for helping combat bullshit moving violations. You're right, in a perfect world it would be something I could care take of myself, but I often don't have the time- so I just pay the ticket and move on (legit or not). For example- this summer I was living in Brooklyn. I filled up my motorcycle and pulled out of a gas station. Within maybe 500-600 feet I got pulled over. I had no idea at all why, as I certainly wasn't speeding or doing anything even moderately questionable. I got a $100 'equipment violation' ticket for having the visor on my helmet opened by 2 inches so I could get some air flow in slow traffic. I wasn't wearing my glasses that day, and had contacts in instead. I've quite literally never had a moving violation before, and I'm a relatively careful driver especially in city traffic. I was told that this ticket was for my safety. Keep in mind I was wearing armored boot, pants, jacket, gloves that covered me past my wrists and an excellent helmet. I comparison, the NYPD often wear almost no protection (see this photo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/NYPD-Motorcycles.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/NYPD-Moto...). As you can see, they don't have full-face helmets, those jackets and pants certainly aren't armored and their gloves don't go very far down. Oh, and no eye protection. I simply paid the ticket, as the ticket had stiff language on it saying that if I contested it that they could increase the fines/fees significantly, and frankly I didn't have the time to go through NYC bureaucracy. The cop admitted to me that he wouldn't have normally pulled me over, but they were doing 'motorcycle enforcement' (aka. quota) and they had to pull over anyone for anything.
ensignavenger 13y ago
What state are you in? In the jurisdictions I am familiar with, if there is no trial record (recording/transcript), the superior court will automatically grant a trial de novo on any appeals.
rahimnathwani 13y ago
Is it permitted to make an audio recording in a situation like this?
- john_b 13y ago
  I'm not sure, but if so I have doubts it would be admissible in a higher court. "Not an official record" and such.

by john_b 13y ago

darklajid 13y ago

You're right. And I'm the first to admit that I cannot even begin to understand the full potential of the application. I'm not from the US and these things are decidedly local and special. But from where I'm standing, you either park correctly or risk a ticket. In fact, this country here just raised the minimum amount for parking offenses because people did the math and found out that in some cases a ticket was cheaper than paying (parking ground, whatever). So in my (certainly subjective, shaped, hardly applicable to the service at hand) world view you're just not fighting tickets. You either don't get them or you risked to get them. Exceptions exist, but are a teeny, tiny fraction and wouldn't be enough to keep a service like this afloat. Could I be totally wrong: Sure.

rayiner 13y ago

I like the system we have in Philadelphia. To contest a minor traffic ticket, you don't have to show up in court or anything like that. There's a website where you can type in your ticket number, write why the ticket was incorrect, and upload evidence to support the claim. It's quite straightforward.

ilbe 13y ago

I'm with you because I had the same experience with a judge while lawyerless. I showed him a manufacturer tech spec on my car to make the point that based on its 0-60 acceleration, it was physically impossible that I was going 67 mph by the time I reached the intersection where I was clocked from where I started accelerating. His response upon seeing the specs was, "What are you, trying to sell me on a car?! This officer (witness) has been with the department 15 years. Guilty."

rahimnathwani 13y ago
If that judge had been on HN he would have been cited for 1 count of 'appeal to authority'.

tibbon 13y ago

I'd love to see something this like for helping combat bullshit moving violations. You're right, in a perfect world it would be something I could care take of myself, but I often don't have the time- so I just pay the ticket and move on (legit or not). For example- this summer I was living in Brooklyn. I filled up my motorcycle and pulled out of a gas station. Within maybe 500-600 feet I got pulled over. I had no idea at all why, as I certainly wasn't speeding or doing anything even moderately questionable. I got a $100 'equipment violation' ticket for having the visor on my helmet opened by 2 inches so I could get some air flow in slow traffic. I wasn't wearing my glasses that day, and had contacts in instead. I've quite literally never had a moving violation before, and I'm a relatively careful driver especially in city traffic. I was told that this ticket was for my safety. Keep in mind I was wearing armored boot, pants, jacket, gloves that covered me past my wrists and an excellent helmet. I comparison, the NYPD often wear almost no protection (see this photo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/NYPD-Motorcycles.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/NYPD-Moto...). As you can see, they don't have full-face helmets, those jackets and pants certainly aren't armored and their gloves don't go very far down. Oh, and no eye protection. I simply paid the ticket, as the ticket had stiff language on it saying that if I contested it that they could increase the fines/fees significantly, and frankly I didn't have the time to go through NYC bureaucracy. The cop admitted to me that he wouldn't have normally pulled me over, but they were doing 'motorcycle enforcement' (aka. quota) and they had to pull over anyone for anything.

ensignavenger 13y ago

What state are you in? In the jurisdictions I am familiar with, if there is no trial record (recording/transcript), the superior court will automatically grant a trial de novo on any appeals.

rahimnathwani 13y ago

Is it permitted to make an audio recording in a situation like this?

john_b 13y ago
I'm not sure, but if so I have doubts it would be admissible in a higher court. "Not an official record" and such.