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The reasons they show in the screenshot seem more like the former. "Meter broken", "Curb paint faded", "Missing signs". But I don't see how they can contest t

by smackfu 13y ago

The reasons they show in the screenshot seem more like the former. "Meter broken", "Curb paint faded", "Missing signs". But I don't see how they can contest those things without proof, and getting proof seems like it would be rather expensive. Pay one person to go out and take a photo and your profits are gone.

darklajid 13y ago
Quite frankly, the first one is the only one I believe in, but then again I'm from a country far, far away and all that. Meter broken? Happens. Curb paint faded? Doesn't apply here (That's something that works a little different), but I have a hard time seeing that being a _common_ reason. Really. Common sense and remains of paint would probably be enough. Missing signs: Seems to be too big of a deal. In my world there's no way you can hand out tickets without having signs in place. You'd be contested again and again even without this service and would stop that behavior - or put up signs. This is not a temporary failure or a result of decay. And then there's the 'meter times unclear' or 'other' part. Again, if this is trying to fight unfair tickets I'm a huge fan. It just doesn't look like that and the comments here seem to be mostly 'Yeah, where do I sign up to get that ticket removed'. I .. park where I'm allowed to park, search a parking spot if I'm not sure OR (last time: 2 weeks back) risk a ticket and pay it if I get one. I guess I lack the empathy for people that have a different way here..
- techsupporter 13y ago
  For San Francisco (the city in the screenshot and the only city that ever seems to matter when getting app-based startups), the rule is that parking at a broken meter is still very much valid. Same goes for where I live and everywhere I've lived and tried to park in multiple places in the U.S. I suspect this is half an enforcement problem (doesn't look good in the papers, "City Tows People Parked at Busted Meters") and part not denying use of a parking spot just because the one pay box is busted. Broken meters are one reason why cities in the U.S. are going to parking time window stickers and fewer pay boxes. As for things like faded curb paint and missing signs and so on, that's not an excuse the operator of the vehicle can use. Even if there's no red curb paint here, you're still not allowed to park within 30 feet of an intersection (on the direction-of-travel side) or 10 feet of a fireplug or 5 feet of a driveway. Those are all things you're expected to know by virtue of having a driver license. Now, being ticketed for being over-time on a free parking stretch that's limited to 2 hours when the sign has gone missing might be one thing, but the folks around here put up so many signs in so many places, I think a person would have a hard time making that stand up. Ultimately: if someone isn't sure and wants to not risk incurring the fine, he or she shouldn't leave a hunk of metal and plastic sitting on the public right-of-way.
Zigurd 13y ago
The standard of proof in minor civil infraction cases is weak. If they find they don't need to get proof, I'm sure they won't. I recently read of a town trying to get their parking situation in order and they found that 30% of their meters were broken.
- fixermark 13y ago
  Indeed. I once had a small claims lawyer brag to me that while defending an expire-meter ticket, he was able to prove that the township had failed to conduct state-mandated Bureau of Weights and Measures calibrations for years. Tickets issued in that time were retroactively canceled.
fixermark 13y ago
In the United States, presumption of innocence implies that if the defendant pleads innocent, it is upon the parking authority to prove that the violation described in the ticket actually happened. Parking authorities tend to overtax their resources for such niceties (on the assumption that most people who are fined will plead guilty and pay the fine rather than burn personal time showing up in court); when an innocent plea happens, it may not even be worth the resource investiture for the officer who issued the ticket to show up to plea.
- fwenzel 13y ago
  You are technically right but you're missing one thing: The parking authority here has an easy time to prove that you've ostensibly parked against the rules. Say, if the curb paint was faded, all they have to show is a map showing where you parked and how that's a special area. Done. Suddenly it's up to you as the defendant to prove that that wasn't the case. Outside of completely bogus tickets, proving that they were technically allowed to write the ticket is a trivial affair for the authorities.

by smackfu 13y ago

darklajid 13y ago

Quite frankly, the first one is the only one I believe in, but then again I'm from a country far, far away and all that. Meter broken? Happens. Curb paint faded? Doesn't apply here (That's something that works a little different), but I have a hard time seeing that being a _common_ reason. Really. Common sense and remains of paint would probably be enough. Missing signs: Seems to be too big of a deal. In my world there's no way you can hand out tickets without having signs in place. You'd be contested again and again even without this service and would stop that behavior - or put up signs. This is not a temporary failure or a result of decay. And then there's the 'meter times unclear' or 'other' part. Again, if this is trying to fight unfair tickets I'm a huge fan. It just doesn't look like that and the comments here seem to be mostly 'Yeah, where do I sign up to get that ticket removed'. I .. park where I'm allowed to park, search a parking spot if I'm not sure OR (last time: 2 weeks back) risk a ticket and pay it if I get one. I guess I lack the empathy for people that have a different way here..

techsupporter 13y ago
For San Francisco (the city in the screenshot and the only city that ever seems to matter when getting app-based startups), the rule is that parking at a broken meter is still very much valid. Same goes for where I live and everywhere I've lived and tried to park in multiple places in the U.S. I suspect this is half an enforcement problem (doesn't look good in the papers, "City Tows People Parked at Busted Meters") and part not denying use of a parking spot just because the one pay box is busted. Broken meters are one reason why cities in the U.S. are going to parking time window stickers and fewer pay boxes. As for things like faded curb paint and missing signs and so on, that's not an excuse the operator of the vehicle can use. Even if there's no red curb paint here, you're still not allowed to park within 30 feet of an intersection (on the direction-of-travel side) or 10 feet of a fireplug or 5 feet of a driveway. Those are all things you're expected to know by virtue of having a driver license. Now, being ticketed for being over-time on a free parking stretch that's limited to 2 hours when the sign has gone missing might be one thing, but the folks around here put up so many signs in so many places, I think a person would have a hard time making that stand up. Ultimately: if someone isn't sure and wants to not risk incurring the fine, he or she shouldn't leave a hunk of metal and plastic sitting on the public right-of-way.

Zigurd 13y ago

The standard of proof in minor civil infraction cases is weak. If they find they don't need to get proof, I'm sure they won't. I recently read of a town trying to get their parking situation in order and they found that 30% of their meters were broken.

fixermark 13y ago
Indeed. I once had a small claims lawyer brag to me that while defending an expire-meter ticket, he was able to prove that the township had failed to conduct state-mandated Bureau of Weights and Measures calibrations for years. Tickets issued in that time were retroactively canceled.

fixermark 13y ago

In the United States, presumption of innocence implies that if the defendant pleads innocent, it is upon the parking authority to prove that the violation described in the ticket actually happened. Parking authorities tend to overtax their resources for such niceties (on the assumption that most people who are fined will plead guilty and pay the fine rather than burn personal time showing up in court); when an innocent plea happens, it may not even be worth the resource investiture for the officer who issued the ticket to show up to plea.

fwenzel 13y ago
You are technically right but you're missing one thing: The parking authority here has an easy time to prove that you've ostensibly parked against the rules. Say, if the curb paint was faded, all they have to show is a map showing where you parked and how that's a special area. Done. Suddenly it's up to you as the defendant to prove that that wasn't the case. Outside of completely bogus tickets, proving that they were technically allowed to write the ticket is a trivial affair for the authorities.