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I'm going to take you at your word that you're actually curious. I think you're seeing hypocrisy here when there is really a lot less in reality. People who a

by jeremyt 13y ago

I'm going to take you at your word that you're actually curious. I think you're seeing hypocrisy here when there is really a lot less in reality. People who are in favor of a certain outcome have no obligation to act as if that outcome has already come to pass. This is why I don't give liberals a hard time because they are in favor of higher taxes but don't voluntarily pay higher taxes themselves. First of all, most conservatives/libertarians are in favor of a smaller government, but smaller doesn't mean nonexistent. There are often large swaths of the government that they are in fact in favor of, and defense is one of them. I would be more surprised if these type of people that you're observing worked in places like the EPA, the Department of Education, and other things that the worldview opposes. But even if… One can't just concede the playing field to the other side. If there is to be an EPA or Department of Education, been all things being equal it's better to have some conservative/libertarian people working there to keep things from getting out of control.

bane 13y ago
> I'm going to take you at your word that you're actually curious. I actually do find it curious, but frustrating. I have a great many friends, who I quite like in normal face-to-face interaction, who I've FB friended, and found I had to unfollow their feeds because in private they turn into rabid ideologues...from every part of the political spectrum. In this case I'm isolating conservative/libertarian folks, but I see similar kinds of things from people in various liberal parts of the spectrum as well...endless huffington post, MSNBC and planned parenthood links or whatever. > People who are in favor of a certain outcome have no obligation to act as if that outcome has already come to pass. Yeah that's true in theory. But it can get out of control. It's like attending a rally about having too many strip clubs in your neighborhood, then chilling out after the rally in your local neighborhood strip club. It's not like there isn't a large, thriving, private, non-government sector in the U.S. that they could be employing their skills at. > all things being equal it's better to have some conservative/libertarian people working there to keep things from getting out of control What would concern me is people who fundamentally don't believe their job should exist because it's a waste of resources, simply not doing a good job.
- mseebach 13y ago
  > Yeah that's true in theory. But it can get out of control. It's like attending a rally about having too many strip clubs in your neighborhood, then chilling out after the rally in your local neighborhood strip club. It's a strained analogy, as strip clubs are fundamentally about the thing people who are opposed to them find objectionable - the stripping. Most things government is about these days isn't the thing libertarians or conservatives oppose. They generally don't oppose that education or the environment is being studied or recommendations are being created - they oppose that the government coerces people to pay for the study and follow the recommendation. If you're a passionate researcher of things environmental, you probably won't be able to pursue your passion if you cut out government employment - and if you live near DC, most jobs will be "contaminated" by government. Nothing about libertarianism compels you to move to a less government-y place just so you can work a more ideologically pure job.
  - bane 13y ago
    Yeah it's a strained analogy, but aren't they all? >Nothing about libertarianism compels you to move to a less government-y place just so you can work a more ideologically pure job. True, but it does compel you to work in a non-governmental job as much as possible. Or at least be honest about the situation: "I hate working for the government and all the waste, but I applied to 100 jobs and this is that only one I could get. I'm looking to get out as soon as possible into the private sector." I'm not fighting for ideological purity, but for ideological honesty. To me at least, it's okay to be a hypocrite or inconsistent, just so long as you are aware of the situation and can acknowledge it. Sometimes shit just happens and you end up in places, doing things you'd rather not be. The specific thing I'm curious about are the all-too-common cases of people who do not possess the meta-cognitive awareness that they are engaged in hypocritical behavior.
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      > True, but it does compel you to work in a non-governmental job as much as possible. Not really. Libertarians want government limited to certain essential functions (exactly which those are varies a bit between individual libertarians.) There's nothing inconsistent about being Libertarian and working for the government in one of those essential functions.
Torgo 13y ago
I worked in the defense industry for a while, and the number of small government conservatives I worked with who were essentially living off the largesse of the bloated defense industry...was really really big.

by jeremyt 13y ago

bane 13y ago

> I'm going to take you at your word that you're actually curious. I actually do find it curious, but frustrating. I have a great many friends, who I quite like in normal face-to-face interaction, who I've FB friended, and found I had to unfollow their feeds because in private they turn into rabid ideologues...from every part of the political spectrum. In this case I'm isolating conservative/libertarian folks, but I see similar kinds of things from people in various liberal parts of the spectrum as well...endless huffington post, MSNBC and planned parenthood links or whatever. > People who are in favor of a certain outcome have no obligation to act as if that outcome has already come to pass. Yeah that's true in theory. But it can get out of control. It's like attending a rally about having too many strip clubs in your neighborhood, then chilling out after the rally in your local neighborhood strip club. It's not like there isn't a large, thriving, private, non-government sector in the U.S. that they could be employing their skills at. > all things being equal it's better to have some conservative/libertarian people working there to keep things from getting out of control What would concern me is people who fundamentally don't believe their job should exist because it's a waste of resources, simply not doing a good job.

mseebach 13y ago
> Yeah that's true in theory. But it can get out of control. It's like attending a rally about having too many strip clubs in your neighborhood, then chilling out after the rally in your local neighborhood strip club. It's a strained analogy, as strip clubs are fundamentally about the thing people who are opposed to them find objectionable - the stripping. Most things government is about these days isn't the thing libertarians or conservatives oppose. They generally don't oppose that education or the environment is being studied or recommendations are being created - they oppose that the government coerces people to pay for the study and follow the recommendation. If you're a passionate researcher of things environmental, you probably won't be able to pursue your passion if you cut out government employment - and if you live near DC, most jobs will be "contaminated" by government. Nothing about libertarianism compels you to move to a less government-y place just so you can work a more ideologically pure job.
- bane 13y ago
  Yeah it's a strained analogy, but aren't they all? >Nothing about libertarianism compels you to move to a less government-y place just so you can work a more ideologically pure job. True, but it does compel you to work in a non-governmental job as much as possible. Or at least be honest about the situation: "I hate working for the government and all the waste, but I applied to 100 jobs and this is that only one I could get. I'm looking to get out as soon as possible into the private sector." I'm not fighting for ideological purity, but for ideological honesty. To me at least, it's okay to be a hypocrite or inconsistent, just so long as you are aware of the situation and can acknowledge it. Sometimes shit just happens and you end up in places, doing things you'd rather not be. The specific thing I'm curious about are the all-too-common cases of people who do not possess the meta-cognitive awareness that they are engaged in hypocritical behavior.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > True, but it does compel you to work in a non-governmental job as much as possible. Not really. Libertarians want government limited to certain essential functions (exactly which those are varies a bit between individual libertarians.) There's nothing inconsistent about being Libertarian and working for the government in one of those essential functions.

Torgo 13y ago

I worked in the defense industry for a while, and the number of small government conservatives I worked with who were essentially living off the largesse of the bloated defense industry...was really really big.