7 ms·

What is integrated about it? They're just a VPS provider, which is a strict subset of what you can do on AWS.

by Kudos 13y ago

ddorian43 13y ago
restart your aws server = goodbye data or hello network hdd
- dave_sullivan 13y ago
  That's true in the same way that double taxation is a concern when setting up a corporation. It kind of is, but it's really not. Due to downvotes, I guess I better explain what I mean: Basically, EC2 provides instances where "if you restart your server you lose your data". You don't use those when that would be a problem for you, you use EBS backed instances which do not have this problem. Or you do it some other way. Point being, this is technically true but it's not really a problem in practice. The double taxation reference refers to it being a somewhat common misconception among people that have taken a business class before that US corporations are "double taxed". IE, corporate profits are taxed, then your personal income is taxed. This is technically true but does not actually matter because you pay yourself a salary (which is taxed as income), but this is deducted as an expense from corporate income (thus not double taxed). Point being--it's the same FUD.
  - ddorian43 13y ago
    what about the none-bytes-free bandwidth ?
  - jcampbell1 13y ago
    I don't get the analogy. With EC2 you either lose your data when rebooting, or you have to use network storage (iSCSI) which has advantages and disadvantages. BTW, when I invest in a corporation, I do get double taxed. The profits are taxed at the highest possible income tax rate, then I pay 15% tax on the distribution of profits. Of course if I work for that corporation, I opt to take the "profits" as a bonus. I pay all the taxes in that case, but at least there isn't double taxation.
    - bmelton 13y ago
      But there are a myriad of scenarios where booting to a AWS image, effectively a CD, is preferred. Having a non-writable filesystem is cool, where that non-writability allows for the saving of temp files and such, but if it were ever compromised, I would just reboot it, and it's exactly how it used to be. Even smarter, I would boot up another clean instance and take that one down, then remap the elastic IP to cut over. For data that must be stored, I can use a EBS, or a database instance. Like the grand-parent said, you pick what makes sense. Saying that ephemeral storage is a bad thing would be true if that were all they offered, but it isn't, and it ephemeral images are sometimes preferred.
      - singingcheese 13y ago
        A reboot doesn't cause you to lose data on your ephemeral storage. I think you mean "stopping" an instance and then "starting" it again (on another host), not rebooting it.
        bmelton 13y ago
        You are correct, that is what I meant, but I've taken to calling it 'rebooting' because all the intro-to-EC2 stuff I've seen listed their "how to reboot the instance" instructions as stopping and starting it, so I figured it's the appropriate vernacular, however incorrect it might otherwise be.
    - aluskuiuc 13y ago
      I'll pick this comment out of the many to reply to rather than spamming - you do not lose your data when you reboot an EC2 instance. Local ephemeral stores are retained unless you terminate or 'stop' your instance - but a reboot is just fine.
      - zibit 13y ago
        "Local ephemeral stores are retained unless you terminate your instance" That sentence makes no sense to people with no AWS experience. But if you give someone with Linux experience secure shell access to a DigitalOcean server they can hit the ground running.
  - oijaf888 13y ago
    Double taxation isn't related to the salary you get paid but the dividends that a corporation pays out. A corporation pays taxes on income then when it pays it out as dividends you pay taxes on it again, hence double taxation. As far as I'm aware you are unable to deduct dividend payments from corporate income for the purposes of taxation. So no, its not FUD in that case at all.
    - dave_sullivan 13y ago
      Alright, I'll bite. You're right. But you're not going to avoid the stock market (where you might get paid in dividends) because you want to avoid double taxation. However, when forming a company for the first time, you'll hear double taxation cited as a reason you might not want to form a corporation. This is stupid because you're not going to pay yourself in dividends. Of course there are many reasons you might choose one business form over another -- I'm just saying that double taxation really isn't one of them. Likewise, if you are deciding between digital ocean and AWS -- there are many reasons why you might want to go with one over the other. One of the reasons is not because you lose all your data when you restart a machine on AWS. I mean, look, I'm considering giving DO a shot for various reasons, but AWS losing my data because of some oversight in their service that DO has fundamentally engineered around isn't one of them. In both cases, I'm not saying one is better than the other -- all i'm saying is some distinctions are subtly stupid to the point of being manipulative. As in FUD. That's my full thought process on this matter, I don't think I've got anything past that, haha
      - AznHisoka 13y ago
        Hmm.. question for u. Say I start a corporation, with just me and another partner, and I need to pay myself... So the revenue earned by the company that's paid to me. that's taxed once by the company. And then again by me as salary. No? Isn't that how it works?
        logjammer 13y ago
        No, that is not how it works. Your salary is an expense for the company, paid before any corporate tax is paid, and thus reduces corporate tax. A company that has $10MM in revenue, and $10MM in salary expense will pay zero corporate income tax.
hiphopyo 13y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they a cloud provider? Ie. a bunch of machines connected into a distributed network, acting like a single virtual machine but with unlimited speed, memory and bandwidth, with the possibility of downtime completely eliminated, and where one only has to pay for the speed, memory and bandwidth one uses.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jcampbell1 13y ago
  Everything you wrote is wrong. Not sure what to correct. They are a VPS. They do bill hourly, which makes them somewhat unique. They were early to offer SSDs. Their pricing is great. I don't want the "cloud". I want a really good VPS. Digital Ocean fits that bill.
- vertex-four 13y ago
  Aside from Google App Engine, no cloud services provider, whether IaaS or PaaS, gets even close to the description you're providing, and even GAE doesn't really.

What is integrated about it? They're just a VPS provider, which is a strict subset of what you can do on AWS.

by Kudos 13y ago

What is integrated about it? They're just a VPS provider, which is a strict subset of what you can do on AWS.

ddorian43 13y ago

restart your aws server = goodbye data or hello network hdd

dave_sullivan 13y ago
That's true in the same way that double taxation is a concern when setting up a corporation. It kind of is, but it's really not. Due to downvotes, I guess I better explain what I mean: Basically, EC2 provides instances where "if you restart your server you lose your data". You don't use those when that would be a problem for you, you use EBS backed instances which do not have this problem. Or you do it some other way. Point being, this is technically true but it's not really a problem in practice. The double taxation reference refers to it being a somewhat common misconception among people that have taken a business class before that US corporations are "double taxed". IE, corporate profits are taxed, then your personal income is taxed. This is technically true but does not actually matter because you pay yourself a salary (which is taxed as income), but this is deducted as an expense from corporate income (thus not double taxed). Point being--it's the same FUD.
- ddorian43 13y ago
  what about the none-bytes-free bandwidth ?
- jcampbell1 13y ago
  I don't get the analogy. With EC2 you either lose your data when rebooting, or you have to use network storage (iSCSI) which has advantages and disadvantages. BTW, when I invest in a corporation, I do get double taxed. The profits are taxed at the highest possible income tax rate, then I pay 15% tax on the distribution of profits. Of course if I work for that corporation, I opt to take the "profits" as a bonus. I pay all the taxes in that case, but at least there isn't double taxation.
  - bmelton 13y ago
    But there are a myriad of scenarios where booting to a AWS image, effectively a CD, is preferred. Having a non-writable filesystem is cool, where that non-writability allows for the saving of temp files and such, but if it were ever compromised, I would just reboot it, and it's exactly how it used to be. Even smarter, I would boot up another clean instance and take that one down, then remap the elastic IP to cut over. For data that must be stored, I can use a EBS, or a database instance. Like the grand-parent said, you pick what makes sense. Saying that ephemeral storage is a bad thing would be true if that were all they offered, but it isn't, and it ephemeral images are sometimes preferred.
    - singingcheese 13y ago
      A reboot doesn't cause you to lose data on your ephemeral storage. I think you mean "stopping" an instance and then "starting" it again (on another host), not rebooting it.
      - bmelton 13y ago
        You are correct, that is what I meant, but I've taken to calling it 'rebooting' because all the intro-to-EC2 stuff I've seen listed their "how to reboot the instance" instructions as stopping and starting it, so I figured it's the appropriate vernacular, however incorrect it might otherwise be.
  - aluskuiuc 13y ago
    I'll pick this comment out of the many to reply to rather than spamming - you do not lose your data when you reboot an EC2 instance. Local ephemeral stores are retained unless you terminate or 'stop' your instance - but a reboot is just fine.
    - zibit 13y ago
      "Local ephemeral stores are retained unless you terminate your instance" That sentence makes no sense to people with no AWS experience. But if you give someone with Linux experience secure shell access to a DigitalOcean server they can hit the ground running.
- oijaf888 13y ago
  Double taxation isn't related to the salary you get paid but the dividends that a corporation pays out. A corporation pays taxes on income then when it pays it out as dividends you pay taxes on it again, hence double taxation. As far as I'm aware you are unable to deduct dividend payments from corporate income for the purposes of taxation. So no, its not FUD in that case at all.
  - dave_sullivan 13y ago
    Alright, I'll bite. You're right. But you're not going to avoid the stock market (where you might get paid in dividends) because you want to avoid double taxation. However, when forming a company for the first time, you'll hear double taxation cited as a reason you might not want to form a corporation. This is stupid because you're not going to pay yourself in dividends. Of course there are many reasons you might choose one business form over another -- I'm just saying that double taxation really isn't one of them. Likewise, if you are deciding between digital ocean and AWS -- there are many reasons why you might want to go with one over the other. One of the reasons is not because you lose all your data when you restart a machine on AWS. I mean, look, I'm considering giving DO a shot for various reasons, but AWS losing my data because of some oversight in their service that DO has fundamentally engineered around isn't one of them. In both cases, I'm not saying one is better than the other -- all i'm saying is some distinctions are subtly stupid to the point of being manipulative. As in FUD. That's my full thought process on this matter, I don't think I've got anything past that, haha
    - AznHisoka 13y ago
      Hmm.. question for u. Say I start a corporation, with just me and another partner, and I need to pay myself... So the revenue earned by the company that's paid to me. that's taxed once by the company. And then again by me as salary. No? Isn't that how it works?
      - logjammer 13y ago
        No, that is not how it works. Your salary is an expense for the company, paid before any corporate tax is paid, and thus reduces corporate tax. A company that has $10MM in revenue, and $10MM in salary expense will pay zero corporate income tax.

hiphopyo 13y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they a cloud provider? Ie. a bunch of machines connected into a distributed network, acting like a single virtual machine but with unlimited speed, memory and bandwidth, with the possibility of downtime completely eliminated, and where one only has to pay for the speed, memory and bandwidth one uses.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jcampbell1 13y ago
Everything you wrote is wrong. Not sure what to correct. They are a VPS. They do bill hourly, which makes them somewhat unique. They were early to offer SSDs. Their pricing is great. I don't want the "cloud". I want a really good VPS. Digital Ocean fits that bill.
vertex-four 13y ago
Aside from Google App Engine, no cloud services provider, whether IaaS or PaaS, gets even close to the description you're providing, and even GAE doesn't really.