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Some counter arguments: [1] The same goes for cash - well, in some cases it's even more trackable than cash. [2] I tend to find credit cards disgusting - peop

Some counter arguments: [1] The same goes for cash - well, in some cases it's even more trackable than cash. [2] I tend to find credit cards disgusting - people get in all kinds of debts that they can't pay back. I prefer debit cards & don't own a CC. The only advantage is guarantee's that credit card companies offer. But what tells you a company can't introduce the same for Bitcoin? [3] Isn't it kind of the same as a debit card? If you put your monthly allowance, or weekly allowance in your pay wallet, what's the problem? If you have a huge amount of bitcoins in 1 address that's made for paying people & isn't in cold storage, you are doing it wrong. Same with regular cash. [4] If you lose your wallet, you can still have a password on it. If you know you've lost your wallet, find the backup at home of your wallet private keys and move the bitcoins to a different address - that means that when you lose your wallet, you don't automatically lose your cash... [5] Exactly. You can debate if it's bad or good - but it does protect the seller against chargebacks. [7] That's great though right? Bitcoin wasn't designed for criminals only. Sure, it has certain advantages for criminals. But it has a lot of other pros too. International transactions take days compared to bitcoin transactions, and are a hell of a lot cheaper too.

lmm 13y ago
> The only advantage is guarantee's that credit card companies offer. But what tells you a company can't introduce the same for Bitcoin? Unlikely in a system where transactions are irreversible by design. If a credit card transaction is suspicious, the banks will hold the funds, or refuse the transfer. The only way to have this work with bitcoin would be if you paid the bank rather than paying the seller - in which case you're just reproducing the existing credit card system with extra complexity. > Isn't it kind of the same as a debit card? If you put your monthly allowance, or weekly allowance in your pay wallet, what's the problem? If you have a huge amount of bitcoins in 1 address that's made for paying people & isn't in cold storage, you are doing it wrong. Same with regular cash. Sure; my point was that there's no advantage for bitcoin here, not that it's any worse than the other options. > Bitcoin wasn't designed for criminals only. Sure, it has certain advantages for criminals. But it has a lot of other pros too. International transactions take days compared to bitcoin transactions, and are a hell of a lot cheaper too. That's the judgement we have to make. My view is that the advantages for criminals are much bigger than the advantages for non-criminals, and so a world with a thriving bitcoin economy is, on the whole, worse than a world without one.
- icebraining 13y ago
  What about the advantage of not having to trust every single merchant to properly secure the CC numbers? You could say, "I don't care, I can issue a chargeback for fraudulent transactions made with my card", but the $190 billion per year that merchants lose due to fraud doesn't come from thin air, it comes from your pocket as higher prices. I can understand not defending Bitcoin, but for the life of me I can't understand people who defend a broken pull system like CCs, and right now Bitcoin is the only push system working internationally that doesn't take days and huge fees to transfer.
  - lmm 13y ago
    > the $190 billion per year that merchants lose due to fraud doesn't come from thin air, it comes from your pocket as higher prices. And how much has been lost to fraud in the Bitcoin system? How do those numbers compare as a proportion of transactions? CCs are not perfect, but the costs of Bitcoin's irreversible transactions are bigger, and rather than everyone paying a small percentage fee, Bitcoin fraud wipes out businesses and even individuals.

lmm 13y ago

> The only advantage is guarantee's that credit card companies offer. But what tells you a company can't introduce the same for Bitcoin? Unlikely in a system where transactions are irreversible by design. If a credit card transaction is suspicious, the banks will hold the funds, or refuse the transfer. The only way to have this work with bitcoin would be if you paid the bank rather than paying the seller - in which case you're just reproducing the existing credit card system with extra complexity. > Isn't it kind of the same as a debit card? If you put your monthly allowance, or weekly allowance in your pay wallet, what's the problem? If you have a huge amount of bitcoins in 1 address that's made for paying people & isn't in cold storage, you are doing it wrong. Same with regular cash. Sure; my point was that there's no advantage for bitcoin here, not that it's any worse than the other options. > Bitcoin wasn't designed for criminals only. Sure, it has certain advantages for criminals. But it has a lot of other pros too. International transactions take days compared to bitcoin transactions, and are a hell of a lot cheaper too. That's the judgement we have to make. My view is that the advantages for criminals are much bigger than the advantages for non-criminals, and so a world with a thriving bitcoin economy is, on the whole, worse than a world without one.

icebraining 13y ago
What about the advantage of not having to trust every single merchant to properly secure the CC numbers? You could say, "I don't care, I can issue a chargeback for fraudulent transactions made with my card", but the $190 billion per year that merchants lose due to fraud doesn't come from thin air, it comes from your pocket as higher prices. I can understand not defending Bitcoin, but for the life of me I can't understand people who defend a broken pull system like CCs, and right now Bitcoin is the only push system working internationally that doesn't take days and huge fees to transfer.
- lmm 13y ago
  > the $190 billion per year that merchants lose due to fraud doesn't come from thin air, it comes from your pocket as higher prices. And how much has been lost to fraud in the Bitcoin system? How do those numbers compare as a proportion of transactions? CCs are not perfect, but the costs of Bitcoin's irreversible transactions are bigger, and rather than everyone paying a small percentage fee, Bitcoin fraud wipes out businesses and even individuals.