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Leaked: Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - Estonian FM to EU's Ashton

6 points by usaphp 13y ago

NatW 13y ago
Given that this comes from Russia Today, this could very-well be propaganda. caveat emptor!
- usaphp 13y ago
  That's what I thought too, but Ashton confirmed the dialog and the voice record was authenticated.
  - jedmeyers 13y ago
    That does not make the accusations true. In addition to all said, snipers were firing for the positions where Berkut was located. Then why would Berkut allow Maidan-hired snipers to fire at people, knowing quite well they are going to be held responsible?
    - usaphp 13y ago
      How do you know? You were there?
      - jedmeyers 13y ago
        How do you know Australia exists? Where you there? See, in the current technological age, people do not have to be somewhere to know the facts about what happened. YouTube helps a lot, btw. What's funny is that is not even the first time you are making such a stupid argument: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6525201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6525201
- PhantomGremlin 13y ago
  It's not just propaganda, it's very crude old-school Soviet propaganda. No subtlety at all. A US based anchor for Russia Today just quit, saying: [1] she could no longer be "part of a network that whitewashes the actions of Putin. I'm proud to be an American and believe in disseminating the truth, and that is why, after this newscast, I am resigning." [1] http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/05/rt-anchor-quits-on-air.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/05/rt-anchor-qui...
usaphp 13y ago
On a side note, the new (not elected so illegal) government wants to ban the use of russian language, that sounds insane to me, they want to be closer to democratic Europe, but isn't banning a freedom of language is one of the worst things you can do if you want to be democratic? Correct me if I am wrong.
- jedmeyers 13y ago
  "wants to ban the use of russian language" - where did you hear that propaganda? How do you ban the use of any language?
  - usaphp 13y ago
    From my cousin and aunt who live in Ukraine, unlike most of the americans and europeans who consider everything that media says is true and if something is against it - it's propaganda, I prefer to ask real people who live there.
    - jedmeyers 13y ago
      So what did those "real" people tell you? Can you explain what "banning the use of the Russian language" actually entails? Will they put you in jail if they catch you speak Russian?
      - efoto 13y ago
        Well, you may find that, for instance, "Resident’s in Ukraine’s western city Lviv, a stronghold of Ukranian nationalism, chose to speak in Russian for the day".
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - jedmeyers 13y ago
      Essentially the law did not make Russian an official language. It left up to the separate regions to decide what language would they like to use as official ones, in addition to Ukrainian. As for the repealing of the law - Rada have done that since it did not correspond to the Constitution of 2004, which they came back to, therefore the law technically became non valid. When Rada repealed the law, they have also announced the immediate plans to propose a new law that will consider interests of all minorities, not just Russian, and will correspond to the new "old" Constitution.

6 points by usaphp 13y ago

NatW 13y ago

Given that this comes from Russia Today, this could very-well be propaganda. caveat emptor!

usaphp 13y ago
That's what I thought too, but Ashton confirmed the dialog and the voice record was authenticated.
- jedmeyers 13y ago
  That does not make the accusations true. In addition to all said, snipers were firing for the positions where Berkut was located. Then why would Berkut allow Maidan-hired snipers to fire at people, knowing quite well they are going to be held responsible?
  - usaphp 13y ago
    How do you know? You were there?
    - jedmeyers 13y ago
      How do you know Australia exists? Where you there? See, in the current technological age, people do not have to be somewhere to know the facts about what happened. YouTube helps a lot, btw. What's funny is that is not even the first time you are making such a stupid argument: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6525201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6525201
PhantomGremlin 13y ago
It's not just propaganda, it's very crude old-school Soviet propaganda. No subtlety at all. A US based anchor for Russia Today just quit, saying: [1] she could no longer be "part of a network that whitewashes the actions of Putin. I'm proud to be an American and believe in disseminating the truth, and that is why, after this newscast, I am resigning." [1] http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/05/rt-anchor-quits-on-air.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/03/05/rt-anchor-qui...

usaphp 13y ago

On a side note, the new (not elected so illegal) government wants to ban the use of russian language, that sounds insane to me, they want to be closer to democratic Europe, but isn't banning a freedom of language is one of the worst things you can do if you want to be democratic? Correct me if I am wrong.

jedmeyers 13y ago
"wants to ban the use of russian language" - where did you hear that propaganda? How do you ban the use of any language?
- usaphp 13y ago
  From my cousin and aunt who live in Ukraine, unlike most of the americans and europeans who consider everything that media says is true and if something is against it - it's propaganda, I prefer to ask real people who live there.
  - jedmeyers 13y ago
    So what did those "real" people tell you? Can you explain what "banning the use of the Russian language" actually entails? Will they put you in jail if they catch you speak Russian?
    - efoto 13y ago
      Well, you may find that, for instance, "Resident’s in Ukraine’s western city Lviv, a stronghold of Ukranian nationalism, chose to speak in Russian for the day".
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - jedmeyers 13y ago
    Essentially the law did not make Russian an official language. It left up to the separate regions to decide what language would they like to use as official ones, in addition to Ukrainian. As for the repealing of the law - Rada have done that since it did not correspond to the Constitution of 2004, which they came back to, therefore the law technically became non valid. When Rada repealed the law, they have also announced the immediate plans to propose a new law that will consider interests of all minorities, not just Russian, and will correspond to the new "old" Constitution.