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At Khan Academy, we're really excited to work with the College Board to provide awesome, free test prep to everyone. We're putting huge emphasis on really learn

by spicyj 13y ago

At Khan Academy, we're really excited to work with the College Board to provide awesome, free test prep to everyone. We're putting huge emphasis on really learning the material instead of practicing test-taking skills that won't be useful afterwards. Here's a little more about the partnership if you're interested: http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/05/khan-academy-gets-major-partnership-to-close-rich-advantage-in-college-test-prep/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/05/khan-academy-gets-major-par...

67726e 13y ago
"Instead of teaching to the test we're going to put huge emphasis on really learning the material instead of practicing test-taking skills that won't be useful afterwards." Now how do we get the schools to actually do that?
- jjoonathan 13y ago
  You provide them with a premade test-prep curriculum that is interwoven with genuine educational videos, perhaps in a subtle way, such as providing coarse links to review material in response to incorrect answers. Then you hope that educators will either see the value in your cross-links or won't have the time to scrape your question bank and eliminate the cross-references ("condensing" the review material). Disclaimer: I have no actual idea if this is what they're doing, I'm just saying that it could be done this way.
- _delirium 13y ago
  Changing the incentives would be a start. If you give schools very specific metrics, and then judge them on how well they optimize those metrics for the least money, it's no surprise that they are going to... try to find the most direct way of optimizing those metrics. In fact, the ones who don't do that will be penalized!
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    "Beware your metrics, for they will improve."
- bradleyjg 13y ago
  Ideally you test better, such that teaching to the test is identical to teaching well. That's the theory behind the Oxbridge tutorial system. Unfortunately good tests and scalable tests seem to be mutually incompatible, and non-scalable tests incommensurable.
- yummyfajitas 13y ago
  People in discussions like this often assume that it's easy to make test scores go up without teaching the material. Here are specific tests from some large states (the first I found via google): http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/Mathematics/20100505book1.pdf http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/Mathematics/20100505book1... http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/EnglishLanguageArts/042610book1w.pdf http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/EnglishLanguageArts/04261... http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/documents/cstrtqmath7.pdf http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/documents/cstrtqmath7.pdf How do you make scores on these specific tests go up to any significant degree without making students learn the material? Please explain the techniques in detail.
  - 67726e 13y ago
    Well, all of the tests are multiple choice. Switching away from the format would certainly encourage a better understanding of material. Given that the format of the 4 choices is general: 1 correct answer, 1 or 2 close but not correct answer, and 1 or 2 obviously wrong answers. Now that format makes thing significantly easier to get the correct answer than simply presenting the problem and asking the student to solve the problem. I'd imagine some of you are thinking "Well hell, they would still need to know the formula", but they also give you formula sheets with the tests. Since they give you a list of possible answers and a list of applicable formulas, you can pretty quickly plug in some numbers and determine the correct answer. Does it still require some base understanding? Yes. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that my grades would not have been as high had I not known how to game the testing system in such a manner. I'm only a few years removed from high school, so I cannot imagine things have changed too much, especially for the better. For reference I am from South Carolina, albeit I went to one of the more performant/richer public school systems in the state.
    - yummyfajitas 13y ago
      Teaching students how to get into the ballpark of the right answer and reject obviously wrong ones increases their understanding. It's an important skill and there are adults out there who embarrass themselves by failing to do it (for example http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-to-happen-to-you-than-being-f-fmeu http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-t... ). Same thing for taking a reference work (e.g. a formula sheet, a wikipedia page) and figuring out which piece of information you need and applying it. Remember, I'm not asking if the tests could be better. I'm asking what you do to make test scores go up without making understanding go up. I'd be at least moderately convinced if you could even show me two teaching techniques, A and B, where A is superior for test scores but significantly inferior for understanding.
sehr 13y ago
This is going to be huge for you guys, congratulations and I hope it all works out!
abeinstein 13y ago
As a former SAT prep teacher, I'm very excited to learn about Khan Academy's partnership with the College Board. Previously, success on the SAT seemed to depend solely on how much money was spent on SAT prep. Glad to hear that the College Board is interested in leveling the playing field.
- vonmoltke 13y ago
  Eh, maybe I'm just an outlier but I got a 1370 in 1997 without really trying, let alone actually spending money to prepare. I'm also a 100% product of public schools.
  - mwerty 13y ago
    Not sure what you are saying. The claim is that you could have done better had you really tried and taking courses is one way of doing that.
    - buckbova 13y ago
      Some feel if they succeed without trying, then this success is more meaningful than those whose foundation for success was built on hard work.
      - vostrocity 13y ago
        Some also feel their time is better spent on learning and smart work and not dry, repetitive practice of test-taking strategies.
    - vonmoltke 13y ago
      Maybe I misinterpreted "success on the SAT" and "solely". In context, I took it to mean people had test test prep did well, in the absolute sense, and those who did not have test prep did not do well. I was providing myself as an example of someone who did well in the absolute sense with no preparation. I was not saying I could not have done better with preparation.
  - 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by spicyj 13y ago

67726e 13y ago

"Instead of teaching to the test we're going to put huge emphasis on really learning the material instead of practicing test-taking skills that won't be useful afterwards." Now how do we get the schools to actually do that?

jjoonathan 13y ago
You provide them with a premade test-prep curriculum that is interwoven with genuine educational videos, perhaps in a subtle way, such as providing coarse links to review material in response to incorrect answers. Then you hope that educators will either see the value in your cross-links or won't have the time to scrape your question bank and eliminate the cross-references ("condensing" the review material). Disclaimer: I have no actual idea if this is what they're doing, I'm just saying that it could be done this way.
_delirium 13y ago
Changing the incentives would be a start. If you give schools very specific metrics, and then judge them on how well they optimize those metrics for the least money, it's no surprise that they are going to... try to find the most direct way of optimizing those metrics. In fact, the ones who don't do that will be penalized!
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  "Beware your metrics, for they will improve."
bradleyjg 13y ago
Ideally you test better, such that teaching to the test is identical to teaching well. That's the theory behind the Oxbridge tutorial system. Unfortunately good tests and scalable tests seem to be mutually incompatible, and non-scalable tests incommensurable.
yummyfajitas 13y ago
People in discussions like this often assume that it's easy to make test scores go up without teaching the material. Here are specific tests from some large states (the first I found via google): http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/Mathematics/20100505book1.pdf http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/Mathematics/20100505book1... http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/EnglishLanguageArts/042610book1w.pdf http://www.nysedregents.org/Grade8/EnglishLanguageArts/04261... http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/documents/cstrtqmath7.pdf http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/documents/cstrtqmath7.pdf How do you make scores on these specific tests go up to any significant degree without making students learn the material? Please explain the techniques in detail.
- 67726e 13y ago
  Well, all of the tests are multiple choice. Switching away from the format would certainly encourage a better understanding of material. Given that the format of the 4 choices is general: 1 correct answer, 1 or 2 close but not correct answer, and 1 or 2 obviously wrong answers. Now that format makes thing significantly easier to get the correct answer than simply presenting the problem and asking the student to solve the problem. I'd imagine some of you are thinking "Well hell, they would still need to know the formula", but they also give you formula sheets with the tests. Since they give you a list of possible answers and a list of applicable formulas, you can pretty quickly plug in some numbers and determine the correct answer. Does it still require some base understanding? Yes. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that my grades would not have been as high had I not known how to game the testing system in such a manner. I'm only a few years removed from high school, so I cannot imagine things have changed too much, especially for the better. For reference I am from South Carolina, albeit I went to one of the more performant/richer public school systems in the state.
  - yummyfajitas 13y ago
    Teaching students how to get into the ballpark of the right answer and reject obviously wrong ones increases their understanding. It's an important skill and there are adults out there who embarrass themselves by failing to do it (for example http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-to-happen-to-you-than-being-f-fmeu http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-t... ). Same thing for taking a reference work (e.g. a formula sheet, a wikipedia page) and figuring out which piece of information you need and applying it. Remember, I'm not asking if the tests could be better. I'm asking what you do to make test scores go up without making understanding go up. I'd be at least moderately convinced if you could even show me two teaching techniques, A and B, where A is superior for test scores but significantly inferior for understanding.

sehr 13y ago

This is going to be huge for you guys, congratulations and I hope it all works out!

abeinstein 13y ago

As a former SAT prep teacher, I'm very excited to learn about Khan Academy's partnership with the College Board. Previously, success on the SAT seemed to depend solely on how much money was spent on SAT prep. Glad to hear that the College Board is interested in leveling the playing field.

vonmoltke 13y ago
Eh, maybe I'm just an outlier but I got a 1370 in 1997 without really trying, let alone actually spending money to prepare. I'm also a 100% product of public schools.
- mwerty 13y ago
  Not sure what you are saying. The claim is that you could have done better had you really tried and taking courses is one way of doing that.
  - buckbova 13y ago
    Some feel if they succeed without trying, then this success is more meaningful than those whose foundation for success was built on hard work.
    - vostrocity 13y ago
      Some also feel their time is better spent on learning and smart work and not dry, repetitive practice of test-taking strategies.
  - vonmoltke 13y ago
    Maybe I misinterpreted "success on the SAT" and "solely". In context, I took it to mean people had test test prep did well, in the absolute sense, and those who did not have test prep did not do well. I was providing myself as an example of someone who did well in the absolute sense with no preparation. I was not saying I could not have done better with preparation.
- 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]