9 ms·

College Board SAT Partnership

102 points by sophiebits 13y ago

nickalekhine 13y ago
This is fantastic news. The only free resources I had access to during my time in high school were the after-school prep courses that were voluntarily run by a few of the teachers. I found those sessions to be invaluable for getting acclimated to the format of the SAT. I still have my gripes with the college application process, though. I think the biggest issue America has with college placement is how much we as a society place on our alma mater. It's a bragging right for parents to say that their kid went to X when their neighbor's kid went to Y. The market for getting into a respectable university has become increasingly competitive, to the point where families that have enough income will spend good money on tutors for the SATs, tutors for the AP/IB courses their kid is taking, and even tutors that will help their kid make their application look good for the admissions officer. I really do hope this will even out the playing field for this one aspect of the application process.
dublinben 13y ago
I'd rather see college admissions continue to move away from standardized testing monopolies (like the SAT) than for education innovators like Khan to get in bed with the incumbents. Free SAT prep is good; a college application that doesn't ask for expensive tests is even better.
- 36bydesign 13y ago
  What would you suggest? Imperfect sure, but the SAT and ACT are a standard measure of student's abilities. Not a popular opinion but I believe the SAT and ACT are invaluable and I'm fine with tests that measure reasoning ability, text comprehension, and writing skills as a basis for who can attend different calibres of universities.
  - dublinben 13y ago
    Hundreds of schools have made standardized tests optional. http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional >Indeed, students' grades and the academic rigor of their courses weighs more heavily in college admissions decision than standardized test scores, class rank or professed interest in a particular school, according to the National Association for College Admission Counseling's 2013 "State of College Admission" report released in January.
    - 36bydesign 13y ago
      You didn't actually suggest anything. And while many schools do not require these tests for admission, most require them for scholarship consideration. Another example is BYU which officially at states that gpa, act/sat and extra-curriculars each way 1/3 in the admissions process but an admissions officer confided that "it basically comes down to ACT scores."
psbp 13y ago
I wonder how early my 2-month-old niece will be able to achieve a high school education. Not that the resources weren't always available, but it's just so accessible now through efforts like Khan (mostly Khan). We could easily have kids work their way through a high school curriculum in half the time, or maybe give them more time for socialization and interesting projects during the traditional school day.
- jdreaver 13y ago
  I really want this to be a reality. When a kid learns how to find out information themselves and be a self-guided learner, I can easily see an average school day taking only a few hours, not 7 or 8. That leaves more time for extra curriculars, a job/internship, or even learning more about topics that interest the student. What I remember most from public school is how much time I wasted, and how little I actually learned. (I am from the US, if that helps).
  - DanielStraight 13y ago
    I'm not trying to derail the comment thread here, so if you want to talk more about this, my email address is in my profile, but... This is basically what my experience was like as a home-schooled student. A lot of self-guided learning, school days significantly less than 7 or 8 hours, and lots of extra-curricular activities.
  - Consultant32452 13y ago
    This was the most infuriating thing for me with my daughter. She was tested in kindergarten to read at a 3rd grade level. She also was beginning to learn multiplication, fractions, etc. I went to her school and asked her about special programs for her, potentially skipping grades, etc. Their response was essentially that in a couple years time the other kids would catch up. Well, of course the other kids will catch up, you're going to tie a big anchor to my daughter that she has to drag through a bunch of boring curriculum she already knows.
    - jdreaver 13y ago
tthomas48 13y ago
By participating in test prep isn't the College Board basically saying their test has no value? It's supposed to test if your education has prepared you for college. They're now basically saying the SAT is a test of how well you've prepared for the SAT.
- jacktoole1 13y ago
  Like most tests, my personal opinion is that it tests both how well you know the material as well as how familiar you are with the format and content of the test. There is value in the former, and hopefully more access to preparation materials can alleviate some of the variance in the latter.
- bronxbomber92 13y ago
  But it's always been like this. The College Board has official test prep books and online courses one can buy. Plus, many schools also offer SAT test prep classes one can take. This test has always been worthless (my bias in this last statement).
ucarion 13y ago
For students trying to achieve high scores (which are a prerequisite to getting into most "good" schools), this won't help. Two summers ago I took courses at Summa [1], an SAT prep course in the San Diego area. The valuable material wasn't the classes reviewing geometry or speed-reading -- it's taking and reviewing the SAT repeatedly. Organizations like Summa can produce SAT-like practice tests, because the highly-prepared kids have probably taken all of the example tests the College Board provides. The SAT is an easy test; no individual question is really that hard. Getting a high score is about knowing how to take the test, and this is learned by taking it many times. Unless the College Board releases many more practice tests (with answer keys and explanations), I don't think this program will mean much. Note that I'm talking about getting very high scores -- the SAT is a completely different game when your goal is to get into ultra-competitive schools. For the average person who might not really understand what to study for, this program will be great. [1]: http://www.summaeducation.com/cms/ http://www.summaeducation.com/cms/
- DanielStraight 13y ago
  Can you explain what you mean by "knowing how to take the test"? I ask because I got a very respectable SAT score and only took one practice test. All my other studying was just working problems of the type which are on the test. I found the only skill required was knowing how to solve the problems asked. I have heard this said many times, that standardized tests are just testing your skill at taking tests. But it does not match with my perception of my experience. I am willing to be shown otherwise, which is why I ask.
  - jw2013 13y ago
    Otherwise story: some preparation boosted my score 200+. And I dare to say I am not alone.
  - foobarqux 13y ago
    Try something like the GMAT.
  - ucarion 13y ago
    By this I mean being familiar with the types of problems the SAT asks, and being aware of gotchas / features of these problems. Familiarity with the test makes it easier to take the test effectively to save time for the few genuinely challenging questions in each section. The material on the SAT is super easy. It's about knowing how to read and analyze simple text and being able to do basic high school math. Despite this, kids taking advanced (or college-level) courses in math and the humanities don't do terribly well on the SAT on the first try. SAT prep is about mastering the esoteric parts of the SAT, not its basic subject-matter. EDIT: I was taking college-level courses before the SAT, and I got a 1700-1900 on the first few tries. After a summer taking a dozen tests, I got to a 2280. The only new genuine "knowledge" I picked up was the meaning of some arcane words. The rest was familiarity.
bhaumik 13y ago
Problem: "The perception that costly test preparation has made the ground uneven." Goal: "This exam should be about merit & hard work equally available to all." Sal's chat with the CEO of College Board [3:57]: https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat/overview-sat-prep/v/sal-talks-to-college-board https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat/overview-sat-prep/...
TempleOSV2 13y ago
I am not being hired. I am God's king. You must impress me. I must impress God. You are a nigger. God says... arent_you_clever bastard Zap gosh envy awful gluttony What_are_you_doing_dave nerd fabulous BBC eh silly_human food huh hobnob money sess_me King_Midas food why_do_I_put_up_with_this smack_some_sense_into_you I'll_get_right_on_it husband rip_off honesty act employee this_might_end_badly Oy I_didn't_see_that basket_case the food oh_oh small_talk you're_fired adultery middle_class I'm_beginning_to_wonder angel crazy who_are_you_to_judge slumin I_am_not_amused these_cans_are_defective It_grieves_me earnest vengeance wrath well_obviously slumin special_case when_hell_freezes_over atheist high_five ghastly super_computer middle_class sports I_pitty_the_fool bad smurfs hilarious arent_you_clever not_in_kansas_anymore hi harder_than_it_looks wife adjusted_for_inflation fabulous you_talkin'_to_me don't_count_on_it just_lovely it_was_nothing silly_human take_your_pick grumble reverse_engineer
36bydesign 13y ago
I run a small test prep business in Phoenix (and will be applying with little hope to YC) so here are some insights on this.. * The deal with Khan Academy feels exciting and I want to see it succeed, but the vast majority of high school kids do not stick with online/self-guided test prep and those who do tend to be two standard deviations to the right anyway. I've heard from countless parents who hired us for in person tutoring after their kid didn't stay motivated with online prep. Moreover, students preparing on their own have a massive inclination to prep on sections they enjoy rather than their weakest sections. * Video explanations inevitably fail to significantly change results because: A) learning becomes passive B) immediate feedback lacks C) individual explanations for questions tend toward "tactics" rather than "strategy" or a cohesive approach that can be applied to a wide variety of problems * the first online test prep that will be effective will be the prep that solves A, B, and C * Seceral people here have stated the only way to prepare for this test is to take practice tests over and over again. That's like suggesting a MLB pitcher becomes an MLB pitcher just by throwing a ball over and over again. Sure practice is essential but if you don't have the right technique or the right muscle strength then you will never significantly improve. * While the SAT and ACT are not IQ tests, SAT/ACT scores are correlated with IQ scores. If the tests don't feel "fair" well at least they are a heck of a lot more fair than gpa (grade inflation, teacher variance, school type, etc). * Understanding how to "beat the test" is never explained by people who say that's all it takes. Developing smart test taking strategies develops good decision making strategies so preparing for the test is arguably as valuable as a strong test score. * Those of you who say the SAT/ACT are really easy are being douchey. If you're on y combinator you're probably smart so you don't need to show your insecurity with statements like that. It isn't unlike amazing painters or violinists telling you what they do is "really easy." * The real interesting thing is how the SAT is changing to become a better test.
- rayiner 13y ago
  I think this is great, because in many ways, the SAT is the least discriminatory metric colleges could use. Yes, poor kids often don't have access to test prep. But what other criteria do colleges use? Its a lot easier to afford test prep than to be in a financial position where you can get prestigious internships or do volunteer work in Africa or those things. And if you're disadvantaged with a tenuous home life, its easier to keep things together long enough to study for and do well on a test then to keep up a 4.0 GPA.

102 points by sophiebits 13y ago

This is fantastic news. The only free resources I had access to during my time in high school were the after-school prep courses that were voluntarily run by a few of the teachers. I found those sessions to be invaluable for getting acclimated to the format of the SAT. I still have my gripes with the college application process, though. I think the biggest issue America has with college placement is how much we as a society place on our alma mater. It's a bragging right for parents to say that their kid went to X when their neighbor's kid went to Y. The market for getting into a respectable university has become increasingly competitive, to the point where families that have enough income will spend good money on tutors for the SATs, tutors for the AP/IB courses their kid is taking, and even tutors that will help their kid make their application look good for the admissions officer. I really do hope this will even out the playing field for this one aspect of the application process.

dublinben 13y ago

I'd rather see college admissions continue to move away from standardized testing monopolies (like the SAT) than for education innovators like Khan to get in bed with the incumbents. Free SAT prep is good; a college application that doesn't ask for expensive tests is even better.

36bydesign 13y ago
What would you suggest? Imperfect sure, but the SAT and ACT are a standard measure of student's abilities. Not a popular opinion but I believe the SAT and ACT are invaluable and I'm fine with tests that measure reasoning ability, text comprehension, and writing skills as a basis for who can attend different calibres of universities.
- dublinben 13y ago
  Hundreds of schools have made standardized tests optional. http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional >Indeed, students' grades and the academic rigor of their courses weighs more heavily in college admissions decision than standardized test scores, class rank or professed interest in a particular school, according to the National Association for College Admission Counseling's 2013 "State of College Admission" report released in January.
  - 36bydesign 13y ago
    You didn't actually suggest anything. And while many schools do not require these tests for admission, most require them for scholarship consideration. Another example is BYU which officially at states that gpa, act/sat and extra-curriculars each way 1/3 in the admissions process but an admissions officer confided that "it basically comes down to ACT scores."

psbp 13y ago

I wonder how early my 2-month-old niece will be able to achieve a high school education. Not that the resources weren't always available, but it's just so accessible now through efforts like Khan (mostly Khan). We could easily have kids work their way through a high school curriculum in half the time, or maybe give them more time for socialization and interesting projects during the traditional school day.

jdreaver 13y ago
I really want this to be a reality. When a kid learns how to find out information themselves and be a self-guided learner, I can easily see an average school day taking only a few hours, not 7 or 8. That leaves more time for extra curriculars, a job/internship, or even learning more about topics that interest the student. What I remember most from public school is how much time I wasted, and how little I actually learned. (I am from the US, if that helps).
- DanielStraight 13y ago
  I'm not trying to derail the comment thread here, so if you want to talk more about this, my email address is in my profile, but... This is basically what my experience was like as a home-schooled student. A lot of self-guided learning, school days significantly less than 7 or 8 hours, and lots of extra-curricular activities.
- Consultant32452 13y ago
  This was the most infuriating thing for me with my daughter. She was tested in kindergarten to read at a 3rd grade level. She also was beginning to learn multiplication, fractions, etc. I went to her school and asked her about special programs for her, potentially skipping grades, etc. Their response was essentially that in a couple years time the other kids would catch up. Well, of course the other kids will catch up, you're going to tie a big anchor to my daughter that she has to drag through a bunch of boring curriculum she already knows.
  - jdreaver 13y ago

tthomas48 13y ago

By participating in test prep isn't the College Board basically saying their test has no value? It's supposed to test if your education has prepared you for college. They're now basically saying the SAT is a test of how well you've prepared for the SAT.

jacktoole1 13y ago
Like most tests, my personal opinion is that it tests both how well you know the material as well as how familiar you are with the format and content of the test. There is value in the former, and hopefully more access to preparation materials can alleviate some of the variance in the latter.
bronxbomber92 13y ago
But it's always been like this. The College Board has official test prep books and online courses one can buy. Plus, many schools also offer SAT test prep classes one can take. This test has always been worthless (my bias in this last statement).

ucarion 13y ago

For students trying to achieve high scores (which are a prerequisite to getting into most "good" schools), this won't help. Two summers ago I took courses at Summa [1], an SAT prep course in the San Diego area. The valuable material wasn't the classes reviewing geometry or speed-reading -- it's taking and reviewing the SAT repeatedly. Organizations like Summa can produce SAT-like practice tests, because the highly-prepared kids have probably taken all of the example tests the College Board provides. The SAT is an easy test; no individual question is really that hard. Getting a high score is about knowing how to take the test, and this is learned by taking it many times. Unless the College Board releases many more practice tests (with answer keys and explanations), I don't think this program will mean much. Note that I'm talking about getting very high scores -- the SAT is a completely different game when your goal is to get into ultra-competitive schools. For the average person who might not really understand what to study for, this program will be great. [1]: http://www.summaeducation.com/cms/ http://www.summaeducation.com/cms/

DanielStraight 13y ago
Can you explain what you mean by "knowing how to take the test"? I ask because I got a very respectable SAT score and only took one practice test. All my other studying was just working problems of the type which are on the test. I found the only skill required was knowing how to solve the problems asked. I have heard this said many times, that standardized tests are just testing your skill at taking tests. But it does not match with my perception of my experience. I am willing to be shown otherwise, which is why I ask.
- jw2013 13y ago
  Otherwise story: some preparation boosted my score 200+. And I dare to say I am not alone.
- foobarqux 13y ago
  Try something like the GMAT.
- ucarion 13y ago
  By this I mean being familiar with the types of problems the SAT asks, and being aware of gotchas / features of these problems. Familiarity with the test makes it easier to take the test effectively to save time for the few genuinely challenging questions in each section. The material on the SAT is super easy. It's about knowing how to read and analyze simple text and being able to do basic high school math. Despite this, kids taking advanced (or college-level) courses in math and the humanities don't do terribly well on the SAT on the first try. SAT prep is about mastering the esoteric parts of the SAT, not its basic subject-matter. EDIT: I was taking college-level courses before the SAT, and I got a 1700-1900 on the first few tries. After a summer taking a dozen tests, I got to a 2280. The only new genuine "knowledge" I picked up was the meaning of some arcane words. The rest was familiarity.

bhaumik 13y ago

Problem: "The perception that costly test preparation has made the ground uneven." Goal: "This exam should be about merit & hard work equally available to all." Sal's chat with the CEO of College Board [3:57]: https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat/overview-sat-prep/v/sal-talks-to-college-board https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat/overview-sat-prep/...

TempleOSV2 13y ago

I am not being hired. I am God's king. You must impress me. I must impress God. You are a nigger. God says... arent_you_clever bastard Zap gosh envy awful gluttony What_are_you_doing_dave nerd fabulous BBC eh silly_human food huh hobnob money sess_me King_Midas food why_do_I_put_up_with_this smack_some_sense_into_you I'll_get_right_on_it husband rip_off honesty act employee this_might_end_badly Oy I_didn't_see_that basket_case the food oh_oh small_talk you're_fired adultery middle_class I'm_beginning_to_wonder angel crazy who_are_you_to_judge slumin I_am_not_amused these_cans_are_defective It_grieves_me earnest vengeance wrath well_obviously slumin special_case when_hell_freezes_over atheist high_five ghastly super_computer middle_class sports I_pitty_the_fool bad smurfs hilarious arent_you_clever not_in_kansas_anymore hi harder_than_it_looks wife adjusted_for_inflation fabulous you_talkin'_to_me don't_count_on_it just_lovely it_was_nothing silly_human take_your_pick grumble reverse_engineer

36bydesign 13y ago

I run a small test prep business in Phoenix (and will be applying with little hope to YC) so here are some insights on this.. * The deal with Khan Academy feels exciting and I want to see it succeed, but the vast majority of high school kids do not stick with online/self-guided test prep and those who do tend to be two standard deviations to the right anyway. I've heard from countless parents who hired us for in person tutoring after their kid didn't stay motivated with online prep. Moreover, students preparing on their own have a massive inclination to prep on sections they enjoy rather than their weakest sections. * Video explanations inevitably fail to significantly change results because: A) learning becomes passive B) immediate feedback lacks C) individual explanations for questions tend toward "tactics" rather than "strategy" or a cohesive approach that can be applied to a wide variety of problems * the first online test prep that will be effective will be the prep that solves A, B, and C * Seceral people here have stated the only way to prepare for this test is to take practice tests over and over again. That's like suggesting a MLB pitcher becomes an MLB pitcher just by throwing a ball over and over again. Sure practice is essential but if you don't have the right technique or the right muscle strength then you will never significantly improve. * While the SAT and ACT are not IQ tests, SAT/ACT scores are correlated with IQ scores. If the tests don't feel "fair" well at least they are a heck of a lot more fair than gpa (grade inflation, teacher variance, school type, etc). * Understanding how to "beat the test" is never explained by people who say that's all it takes. Developing smart test taking strategies develops good decision making strategies so preparing for the test is arguably as valuable as a strong test score. * Those of you who say the SAT/ACT are really easy are being douchey. If you're on y combinator you're probably smart so you don't need to show your insecurity with statements like that. It isn't unlike amazing painters or violinists telling you what they do is "really easy." * The real interesting thing is how the SAT is changing to become a better test.

rayiner 13y ago
I think this is great, because in many ways, the SAT is the least discriminatory metric colleges could use. Yes, poor kids often don't have access to test prep. But what other criteria do colleges use? Its a lot easier to afford test prep than to be in a financial position where you can get prestigious internships or do volunteer work in Africa or those things. And if you're disadvantaged with a tenuous home life, its easier to keep things together long enough to study for and do well on a test then to keep up a 4.0 GPA.