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Because the "cloud" is made up of something other than servers? Am I missing something here, or is this just semantics?

by TrevorJ 17y ago

cnlwsu 17y ago
I think the title is misleading. at the end of the article I think this sums it up well: "let’s start right now and focus on the application as the central entity to our architectures, not the physical server"
jshen 17y ago
Yes you are. You don't have to think about the servers, the cloud abstracts it away. Here's an analogy. High level languages make memory management obsolete. You could then ask, "because programs are made up of something other than memory and instructions?", and you'd definitely be missing something.
- tdavis 17y ago
  Your analogy makes sense, but it is as broken as the central idea in this piece, and they're both so for the same reason: Despite high-level languages, memory management is still very much a reality for many programmers. People still write ASM and C every day. Memory management and physical boxes may be obsolete for Joe Schmoe, but he's not the guy who makes it possible to ignore these things in the first place. There are all sorts of folks out there who's choice to gain copious amounts of low-level knowledge has allowed me to be lazy.
  - jshen 17y ago
    I disagree with your implications that someone is lazy if they have concerns other than low level bit twiddling. Some of us are trying to build businesses or simply progress the state of the art in other areas. For example, I work in a research group on information retrieval. I could spend hours of my day making progress on IR with higher level languages or I could instead waste productivity on manual memory management. Choosing the former is not being lazy. Also, the idea that "some" people still do C therefore memory management isn't obsolete for most people is clearly flawed.
    - tdavis 17y ago
      I meant the good kind of lazy, so yeah, I wasn't really trying to insult you. Also, the idea that "some" people still do C therefore memory management isn't obsolete for most people is clearly flawed. As flawed as the absolute claim, "Cloud Computing Makes Servers Obsolete". Not only is it objectively false (servers are necessary for cloud computing, duh), but it makes no attempt to quantify by saying for whom they've become obsolete. I admit to not reading the article (based on the ridiculous title), but if it claims that cloud computing makes skills in setting up dedicated hardware from OS up and then engaging in smart capacity planning and proper deployment schemes so as to make horizontal (or vertical) scaling as painless as possible without the advantages provided by virtualization less necessary in today's computing landscape, then... I agree wholeheartedly!
      - jshen 17y ago
        "loud computing makes skills in setting up dedicated hardware from OS up and then engaging in smart capacity planning and proper deployment schemes so as to make horizontal (or vertical) scaling as painless as possible without the advantages provided by virtualization less necessary in today's computing landscape" That makes for a great title doesn't it? LOL
        tdavis 17y ago
        Better than <insert sensationalist blanket statement to insight linkbait>. How about, Cloud Computing Making Dedicated Hardware Obsolete For Some. Was that so difficult? Took me 10 seconds.
        jshen 17y ago
        that isn't a good title. Given the intended audience, you can assume the readership is smart enough to understand that nuances are not reflected in the title. Here are some examples of using your style in well known titles. God is not Great Most of the time (worse title, but more accurate) A failure of Capitalism to self regulate banking and insurance and avoid systemic risk (much worse than the original, but more accurate) A pale blue dot when viewed from a distant perspective in space (much worse than the original, but more accurate)
- TrevorJ 17y ago
  I guess my basic point is that people talk about the "cloud" like it is a magical entity that solves all our problems when it comes to server load, resources and data. The reality is, it's still hardware, it's still physical, and it is still a limited resource. Not having to think about something doesn't change the nature of the thing you aren't thinking about. Clouds are still built from servers.
  - jshen 17y ago
    It does change the nature of the thing to the person using the cloud. I agree with your points about the silver bullet hype, but the cloud does give people a lot of advantages and a lot of cost savings under the right circumstances. Those circumstances happen to include a very large segment of web developers.
    - TrevorJ 17y ago
      Sure, I agree completely with your points there. I'm just pointing out that they are still servers, albeit distributed ones.

Because the "cloud" is made up of something other than servers? Am I missing something here, or is this just semantics?

by TrevorJ 17y ago

Because the "cloud" is made up of something other than servers? Am I missing something here, or is this just semantics?

I think the title is misleading. at the end of the article I think this sums it up well: "let’s start right now and focus on the application as the central entity to our architectures, not the physical server"

jshen 17y ago

Yes you are. You don't have to think about the servers, the cloud abstracts it away. Here's an analogy. High level languages make memory management obsolete. You could then ask, "because programs are made up of something other than memory and instructions?", and you'd definitely be missing something.

tdavis 17y ago
Your analogy makes sense, but it is as broken as the central idea in this piece, and they're both so for the same reason: Despite high-level languages, memory management is still very much a reality for many programmers. People still write ASM and C every day. Memory management and physical boxes may be obsolete for Joe Schmoe, but he's not the guy who makes it possible to ignore these things in the first place. There are all sorts of folks out there who's choice to gain copious amounts of low-level knowledge has allowed me to be lazy.
- jshen 17y ago
  I disagree with your implications that someone is lazy if they have concerns other than low level bit twiddling. Some of us are trying to build businesses or simply progress the state of the art in other areas. For example, I work in a research group on information retrieval. I could spend hours of my day making progress on IR with higher level languages or I could instead waste productivity on manual memory management. Choosing the former is not being lazy. Also, the idea that "some" people still do C therefore memory management isn't obsolete for most people is clearly flawed.
  - tdavis 17y ago
    I meant the good kind of lazy, so yeah, I wasn't really trying to insult you. Also, the idea that "some" people still do C therefore memory management isn't obsolete for most people is clearly flawed. As flawed as the absolute claim, "Cloud Computing Makes Servers Obsolete". Not only is it objectively false (servers are necessary for cloud computing, duh), but it makes no attempt to quantify by saying for whom they've become obsolete. I admit to not reading the article (based on the ridiculous title), but if it claims that cloud computing makes skills in setting up dedicated hardware from OS up and then engaging in smart capacity planning and proper deployment schemes so as to make horizontal (or vertical) scaling as painless as possible without the advantages provided by virtualization less necessary in today's computing landscape, then... I agree wholeheartedly!
    - jshen 17y ago
      "loud computing makes skills in setting up dedicated hardware from OS up and then engaging in smart capacity planning and proper deployment schemes so as to make horizontal (or vertical) scaling as painless as possible without the advantages provided by virtualization less necessary in today's computing landscape" That makes for a great title doesn't it? LOL
      - tdavis 17y ago
        Better than <insert sensationalist blanket statement to insight linkbait>. How about, Cloud Computing Making Dedicated Hardware Obsolete For Some. Was that so difficult? Took me 10 seconds.
        jshen 17y ago
        that isn't a good title. Given the intended audience, you can assume the readership is smart enough to understand that nuances are not reflected in the title. Here are some examples of using your style in well known titles. God is not Great Most of the time (worse title, but more accurate) A failure of Capitalism to self regulate banking and insurance and avoid systemic risk (much worse than the original, but more accurate) A pale blue dot when viewed from a distant perspective in space (much worse than the original, but more accurate)
TrevorJ 17y ago
I guess my basic point is that people talk about the "cloud" like it is a magical entity that solves all our problems when it comes to server load, resources and data. The reality is, it's still hardware, it's still physical, and it is still a limited resource. Not having to think about something doesn't change the nature of the thing you aren't thinking about. Clouds are still built from servers.
- jshen 17y ago
  It does change the nature of the thing to the person using the cloud. I agree with your points about the silver bullet hype, but the cloud does give people a lot of advantages and a lot of cost savings under the right circumstances. Those circumstances happen to include a very large segment of web developers.
  - TrevorJ 17y ago
    Sure, I agree completely with your points there. I'm just pointing out that they are still servers, albeit distributed ones.