4 ms·

Oh they are headed for trouble, you cannot avoid regulation that way. You can get a stack of $20 one-use debit cards and you can get a CC generator from some b

by ck2 13y ago

Oh they are headed for trouble, you cannot avoid regulation that way. You can get a stack of $20 one-use debit cards and you can get a CC generator from some banks for your card to use for a one-time purchase online. One could automate buying thousands if they had the time and money.

reso 13y ago
This is Gareth from Tinkercoin, thanks for checking us out! We are completely compliant with all US federal AML/KYC laws. We also have a strong background in credit-card fraud and it's been top of our mind since day one.
- highCs 13y ago
  How are you going to deal with disputes? ie. I buy bitcoin at tinkercoin and now I'm want my $20 back. I've only to start a dispute at my bank and I'll get my money automatically until you prove that I've received the bitcoin. I'm not sure but I think you might have a hard time proving your system has no bug and that everything went as you say it did (ie. the customer actually own the bitcoin address you say is his etc.) I've always thought that you can't prove by your own system and that nobody will ever reach your code so see if it's right and even then, what prove that it is the code which was live when the customer was here etc. Clearly, how are you going to prove the customer bitcoin address is actually his? Note I've almost no knownledge in this field and it's been a time I'm looking for an answer to this question. edit: one might think that one $20 loss per x transactions can be absorbed by the cost of business but I think it doesn't work since the hack's going to be shared and it will grow in quantity and in efficiency to finally reach a buzz stage. I might be wrong again here.
  - eli 13y ago
    You don't actually get your money back "automatically." The merchant has a chance to respond first. It's almost impossible to get money back from a company that knows its way around a chargeback (like a gym membership).
    - jrockway 13y ago
      It's actually pretty easy. You just don't pay your bill at the end of the month.
      - eli 13y ago
        Don't pay your credit card bill? They will definitely come after you for it.
dangrossman 13y ago
Why would someone go to the trouble? If you want to buy $1000 in Bitcoin there are plenty of places willing to sell that to you without buying one-time-use debit cards and VPS accounts for proxies and everything else involved in evading detection at a business that doesn't want to sell it to you.
- eli 13y ago
  There are plenty of places willing to sell you $1000 in bitcoins on a credit card?
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Coinbase will, I believe.
    - sp332 13y ago
      Coinbase requires a verified bank account, not a credit card. Edit to add: No one will sell you BTC on a credit card because credit card transactions are reversible and bitcoin transactions are not.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Yes, but you can also optionally add a credit card. Though, looking closer, they say: Credit cards are a backup payment method only and cannot be used to buy bitcoin directly An additional fee of 3.1% + $0.18 will be applied to any charges made to your cards. An additional "cash advance"/ATM fee may be applied by your bank, depending on your agreement with them.
paulgb 13y ago
How do you get around the phone verification step? Burner phones aren't that cheap.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  Twilio or Google Voice numbers, maybe?
  - acjohnson55 13y ago
    Those can be detected. Facebook rules them out of its phone verification process, for instance.
- rahimnathwani 13y ago
  Ipkall's free PSTN->SIP numbers?
- GFischer 13y ago
  A new number here in Uruguay costs U$ 2. Though the market here is VERY different, many people legitimately use prepaid phones, it's not like in the U.S. where it's something seen as suspicious/fringe, so it might be subsidized by the phone company. Edit: they do sell prepaid SIMs in the USA but they're really expensive, much like cell phone service overall there. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414494,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414494,00.asp some forums suggest there are cheaper options www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g32655-i61-k5212639-Pre_Paid_SIM_card_while_in_USA_non_residents-Los_Angeles_California.html
toomuchtodo 13y ago
You can easily detect a prepaid card from a traditional debit/credit card. http://www.maxmind.com/en/ccv_overview http://www.maxmind.com/en/ccv_overview

by ck2 13y ago

reso 13y ago

This is Gareth from Tinkercoin, thanks for checking us out! We are completely compliant with all US federal AML/KYC laws. We also have a strong background in credit-card fraud and it's been top of our mind since day one.

highCs 13y ago
How are you going to deal with disputes? ie. I buy bitcoin at tinkercoin and now I'm want my $20 back. I've only to start a dispute at my bank and I'll get my money automatically until you prove that I've received the bitcoin. I'm not sure but I think you might have a hard time proving your system has no bug and that everything went as you say it did (ie. the customer actually own the bitcoin address you say is his etc.) I've always thought that you can't prove by your own system and that nobody will ever reach your code so see if it's right and even then, what prove that it is the code which was live when the customer was here etc. Clearly, how are you going to prove the customer bitcoin address is actually his? Note I've almost no knownledge in this field and it's been a time I'm looking for an answer to this question. edit: one might think that one $20 loss per x transactions can be absorbed by the cost of business but I think it doesn't work since the hack's going to be shared and it will grow in quantity and in efficiency to finally reach a buzz stage. I might be wrong again here.
- eli 13y ago
  You don't actually get your money back "automatically." The merchant has a chance to respond first. It's almost impossible to get money back from a company that knows its way around a chargeback (like a gym membership).
  - jrockway 13y ago
    It's actually pretty easy. You just don't pay your bill at the end of the month.
    - eli 13y ago
      Don't pay your credit card bill? They will definitely come after you for it.

dangrossman 13y ago

Why would someone go to the trouble? If you want to buy $1000 in Bitcoin there are plenty of places willing to sell that to you without buying one-time-use debit cards and VPS accounts for proxies and everything else involved in evading detection at a business that doesn't want to sell it to you.

eli 13y ago
There are plenty of places willing to sell you $1000 in bitcoins on a credit card?
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Coinbase will, I believe.
  - sp332 13y ago
    Coinbase requires a verified bank account, not a credit card. Edit to add: No one will sell you BTC on a credit card because credit card transactions are reversible and bitcoin transactions are not.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Yes, but you can also optionally add a credit card. Though, looking closer, they say: Credit cards are a backup payment method only and cannot be used to buy bitcoin directly An additional fee of 3.1% + $0.18 will be applied to any charges made to your cards. An additional "cash advance"/ATM fee may be applied by your bank, depending on your agreement with them.

paulgb 13y ago

How do you get around the phone verification step? Burner phones aren't that cheap.

ceejayoz 13y ago
Twilio or Google Voice numbers, maybe?
- acjohnson55 13y ago
  Those can be detected. Facebook rules them out of its phone verification process, for instance.
rahimnathwani 13y ago
Ipkall's free PSTN->SIP numbers?
GFischer 13y ago
A new number here in Uruguay costs U$ 2. Though the market here is VERY different, many people legitimately use prepaid phones, it's not like in the U.S. where it's something seen as suspicious/fringe, so it might be subsidized by the phone company. Edit: they do sell prepaid SIMs in the USA but they're really expensive, much like cell phone service overall there. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414494,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414494,00.asp some forums suggest there are cheaper options www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g32655-i61-k5212639-Pre_Paid_SIM_card_while_in_USA_non_residents-Los_Angeles_California.html

toomuchtodo 13y ago

You can easily detect a prepaid card from a traditional debit/credit card. http://www.maxmind.com/en/ccv_overview http://www.maxmind.com/en/ccv_overview